021: Online Meetup | Getting Your Spouse on Board With FIRE

Listen in as Ryan, Archie, Kyle, and Ali discuss how they got their spouses on board with FIRE. Learn what NOT to do, and how the FIRE Persuasion Checklist can help you have a successful FIRE conversation with your spouse!

Special thanks to friend of the show, Shaidah Karim, for her help with the show notes. Thank you, Shaidah!

Participants

  • Archie from Toronto, ON (Episode 8)
  • Kyle from Orillia, ON
  • Ali from Edmonton, AB

Show notes

The FIRE Persuasion Checklist™

  1. Match your spouse’s personality with a particular niche in the FIRE movement and send them a few links showcasing the lifestyle change. There is no shortage of blogs covering FIRE, pick the one you think they will jive with!
  2. Find a babysitter (if applicable) and headout on your Dream Date!
  3. Develop a conversation for your spouse outside of your relationship. This is where the community comes in! Perhaps you’re not explaining things right or maybe they just need a second, third and fourth opinion! Have them join a Facebook group such as ChooseFI Canada or bring them to a meetup—or go all out and throw them straight into the FIRE like Archie did!
  4. At your discretion, introduce the mainstream philosophy and technical practices that you want to adopt to make FIRE a realistic goal in your relationship and family.

Did Kyle ever hold a ChooseFI Meetup or a screening of Playing With FIRE? Ask him in the comments below!

Click to view episode transcript

Ryan 0:00
Hey guys, before we begin, I just wanted to give a quick warning. I really apologise. But the audio quality of this podcast today is not the greatest.

Ryan 0:08
Unfortunately, we had a few technical issues rolling into the podcast, and they kind of stuck around.

Ryan 0:13
So unfortunately, it’s not going to be the best that you’ve ever heard. But I think this is a really key conversation to have. And I think it’s a really important episode to listen to. So I hope you’ll put up with it sorry in advance, and I hope you enjoy the show.

Intro 0:34
Welcome, everybody to Explore FI Canada Podcast—the future of personal finance in Canada.

Ryan 0:44
My name is Ryan Myricks, and I’ll be hosting online meetups where we get to hear from you the listener talking about all things financial independence in Canada.

Ryan 0:52
It’s not just voicemails or emails, you literally get to say exactly what’s on your mind and it will be released onto Explore FI Canada but remember, with great power comes great responsibility. So we do have a few ground rules.

Ryan 1:06
Number one, we’re in the business of breaking only one taboo today talking about money. As such, please do not bring up sex, politics or religion nobody wants to know.

Ryan 1:17
Number two, please refrain from swearing or being a jerk. All criticism of each other or other Canadians or content creators should be constructive. It is very unhelpful to call somebody stupid and leave it at that explain your frustration, so everybody else can learn.

Ryan 1:31
Three, please only use the first names of anybody you mention. We want to keep everybody anonymous for the very obvious reason that we are talking about money. It’s okay to use the full name of content creators such as Ben Felix or Paula Pant.

Ryan 1:43
Four, and finally the last rule (it’s just for me). I’m going to keep this entire meetup unedited unless somebody breaks a rule. There’s no point in recording a meetup if I start to chop it up and paint a picture that makes me or the podcast look good. So my promise to you, the listener, is an authentic recording as-is.

Ryan 2:01
A couple of disclaimers. All opinions of the participants are their own and do not represent Explore FI Canada or its affiliates. All advice you hear are opinions only. So please—don’t let this be your only source of information.

Ryan 2:13
Do your own research and seek an accredited professional if needed.

Ryan 2:21
And now onto the meetup. Let’s introduce today’s participants! Hailing from Toronto, Ontario, right from her condo in downtown is Archie, welcome back. You were on episode eight, Reaching for FI in Downtown Toronto. How’s it going?

Archie 2:35
Pretty good. Thank you. How are you?

Ryan 2:38
I’m good. I’m good. How is the downtown life?

Archie 2:41
Wonderful. The weather could be better. But that’s the entire point of living downtown I guess so I don’t have to deal with it too much. So yeah, I’m loving it still.

Ryan 2:51
Yeah, what weather? I’m pretty sure on your episode you walked us through your underground life of scurrying from the Eaton Centre to your work.

Archie 2:59
Exactly. That’s what I’m continuing to do and pretending that there is no snow outside so you know, it works out.

Ryan 3:05
You’re just trying to relate to the rest of us by saying things like clouds and rain and weather.

Archie 3:11
I Google the weather every so often.

Ryan 3:12
Liar! Alright, and what are you drinking right now, Archie?

Archie 3:18
I have some eggnog, which for whatever reason did not buy it before Christmas, but bought it anyway, because it was necessary that I had it before New Year’s. So yeah, I’m trying on some eggnog with some whiskey. It is delicious.

Ryan 3:32
Oh my, that’s good. I’m currently drinking some Neocitran because I’m coming under a flu for sure. All right. You’re not the only one on this podcast. We also have Kyle from Orillia, Ontario. How’s it going, buddy?

Kyle 3:45
Hey, Ryan. I’m great and really excited to be here tonight with you guys.

Ryan 3:49
And what are you drinking?

Kyle 3:51
I just finished a coffee and then got a bit of Jamieson here with me well joining in with the theme it sounds like.

Ryan 3:59
Right on! This is quickly turning into the FI Garage. I’m digging it. And last but not least, from Edmonton, Alberta is Ali. You are phoning in. Welcome to the meetup.

Ali 4:10
Hi, thanks.

Ryan 4:12
What are you drinking?

Ryan 4:12
So I’m not drinking anything. So…

Ryan 4:16
We have actually something way more interesting to say. What are you talking on right now?

Ali 4:22
On on my phone attached to the wall! Going old school!

Ryan 4:29
Let’s give our listeners just a few seconds to absorb that. Ali is talking to a phone that is attached to a cord that is attached to the wall.

Ali 4:39
So I’m not going anywhere.

Ryan 4:43
Are you just kind of like do you have it like through a door you know where you like close it like you’re 15 and you want to talk to your boyfriend but like you don’t want your parents to hear so you just like scurry to the other room and close the door but the line’s like dragged underneath it and whatnot.

Ali 4:56
I wish I could but I’m in the bonus room. So like just close the doors that my kids don’t wake up.

Ryan 5:03
Alright, so we have a really great episode for everybody tonight because we’re going to be talking about getting your spouse on board with the FIRE movement. So just to introduce everybody and get the listeners familiar with all your voices I’m going to pass the mic so to speak to each of you and just for 30 seconds just say if your spouse is on board with FI or not and we can paint a really nice backdrop for this conversation. So Archie, is your spouse a okay with the FIRE movement or no?

Archie 5:28
At the moment? He is very okay with the FIRE movement. We’re not completely aligned on how we’re going to get there but we are getting there together at one point or another.

Ryan 5:40
Through Blood, Sweat or tears, huh?

Archie 5:42
All combined at the same time.

Ryan 5:45
Kyle, what about you is your spouse and family on board with the FIRE movement?

Kyle 5:50
Yeah, you know, I can relate to that for sure. I my wife and I are both fully on board 100% Rock and Roll ready to go and then the trouble comes when it’s action time, I think, you know what, we both had the same vision and dreams for the family there.

Kyle 6:08
And then I guess we tend to butt heads a bit when it comes time to, you know, what purchases are we making? Or how does it look like along the way to get there? Yeah, hundred percent both on board but different personality, different people. And that’s some of the fun along the journey, I guess.

Ryan 6:28
Okay, that’s really, really interesting. And I’m going to follow up with some questions after I introduce Ali and her voice. So Ali is your family on board with the FIRE movement?

Ali 6:37
I see. We’re, we’re kind of coming together. Now. My husband’s not on board with the early retirement side of things, but he’s on board with the saving for financial independence.

Ryan 6:47
Yeah, he’s one of those guys where he’s at the FI not RE type.

Ali 6:52
Yeah, yeah. He likes his job and doesn’t see any point in scrimping and then depriving ourselves.

Ryan 6:58
Oh my gosh, oh, I need to have a conversation with him. Anyways. Kyle, I want to turn it back to you because I think this is going to be a great way to start the conversation. So you said that your wife, you guys share the same goal, you have the same vision, but getting there is proving to be difficult.

Ryan 7:18
So what is it like? Can you name like, actually like some specifics? Like, I don’t want you to just bring up like an argument or anything like that, for example, but just but just like, what is it that where you see something so clearly obvious that you should or should not be spending on that your wife would say, whoa, whoa, whoa, what?

Kyle 7:36
Yeah, appreciate it. I think it’s I think it’s pretty common from what I’ve been reading with other people, which is, I guess encouraging, but yeah, I think one of the real examples that comes to mind a lot is even just groceries we’ll, you know, plan out ahead of the month, okay, let’s spend X amount of dollars on groceries this month, and I’m to the point where I’m like You know, I don’t care exactly what it is, let’s just set it a reasonable amount they will stick to it.

Kyle 8:05
And, and sometimes it’s like, you know, we’ll we’ll get all pumped about something or read something together or watch something. And you know, we’ve got a daughter who’s who’s nine now and a son who’s 11 months and so they we kind of told them about especially the older one about some of the things and they’re like holdng us accountable like yeah, we’re looking forward to this time like we’re working towards when we can have a bit of a homestead together and kind of four or five years from now, and at least be in a partially retired tired state.

Kyle 8:39
I guess all that to say going back to the example your question with the groceries will be all pumped up will be excited and say let’s do this. And then we’ll go to the store together and I’ll you know, load it be loading up and I’ll meet her down the aisle and she’ll have whatever in the cart and I’m just like, Are you kidding me?

Kyle 8:58
And then with her it’s like Yeah, we’re doing this, we’re doing this, but it’s just like, we’re totally missing each other on what the doing this looks like even though like we like I said, we have that same end goal we have and we would be like the importance of it. We’re all on board. But yeah, it’s just different levels of what it looks like getting there. I guess.

Ryan 9:17
I remember one time I was shopping with my wife and we met each other. It’s kind of like Jesse said, like, just like in the middle the aisle and I looked into her car and everything was yellow. And I was like, perfect. The discount No. There was not one other colour.

Archie 9:34
That’s what love looks like.

Ryan 9:36
I almost proposed right then and there, right? Archie, do you have any specific examples of your spouse and you butting heads?

Archie 9:46
Absolutely. I feel like we did that a lot over the years primarily because it was also almost funny that we would butt heads because I thought we were totally on the same page because he’s not one to spend money to begin with. He’s like, naturally a frugal person, I would say I’m the spendy pants of the relationship in comparison to him. And I’m not particularly spending to begin with.

Archie 10:08
So I thought it would be a natural progression to essentially get to the whole early retirement aspect of it. So I, when I originally brought it up, his response was, what are you talking about? What the hell are we going to do with our lives? How does that even work? Who are we going to hang out with? Are we gonna have to make friends with 70 year olds? These were the kinds of questions I got.

Archie 10:28
So in that sense, like he could never imagine a life where that was a thing. And for me, personally, I had to go back to the drawing board and think about the things that he wanted as opposed to the things I wanted. For me, it made sense because I wanted to travel I wanted to do this thing, and I was kind of pushing my agenda and obviously that did not that great, as you can imagine.

Archie 10:48
But even now we’re not fully on. Like we’re not fully clear on how the retirement part of it will work out. Because when I originally started, I feel like I struggled with this myself. As much as I do as a couple, in that, like earlier was like, Oh, I’m gonna keep saving, and then I’m gonna quit and then I’m going to be done with job forever.

Archie 11:08
And now it’s just turning into this, like, oh, maybe we should take a couple of months off every so often, or maybe a couple years off every so often. And so we kind of play with the idea. And obviously, we don’t always agree all the time. And part of it is coming to realise that maybe we don’t need to have the exact same plan.

Ryan 11:21
I think it’d be exceptionally rare to find, you know, a couple that is like 100% on board like completely 100% compatible, like, they literally want the exact same like housing situation or car situation food, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? Like, I think the very obvious exception to that rule is Millennial Revolution, especially because they’re probably the most popular fire couple in Canada, but you have to understand that they’re probably unicorns in a sense in that space, right? Like they they are really like 100% matched up like it must look into the mirror and see each other right?

Ali 11:55
Well, I think it’s all like the pioneers of the FIRE movement that like kind of make every feel like everyone else’s everyone that’s in the FIRE movement is on board and they’re coupled together like like Frugalwoods and Mr. Money Mustache at the time, like, you kind of see them and you think okay, they’ve got it all there everyone’s on board in the same page. Everyone else should be like come on you should get on with the program! And then that’s not quite the reality you face when you bring up the idea.

Ryan 12:20
Well, let’s bring that up right now them because I know a lot of people want to convert their spouse you know, like I called it FIRE. What did I call it on the Facebook group? I think I called it FIRE persuasion therapy?

Archie 12:36
Association.

Ryan 12:37
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And, and I’ve been talking about it for a long time with my wife and she had basically just said like, you know, it’s you’re just participating in this because just people to talk finances with you know, and that’s all she saw out of it. Right. It was just the community aspect. And that was it.

Ryan 12:53
But as I began to tell her more and more, I think she’s really come around especially because I think it was about two or three weeks ago, we had been driving back and we’re talking finances and she said, You know, like, really casually she’s like, you know, if you don’t have your job, like sometime in the near future, and my jaw just dropped, right because me quitting my job was something that she was very, very uncomfortable with. I mean, like altra uncomfortable with.

Ryan 13:19
And it didn’t matter what kind of dollar figure we had in the bank account, like it just wasn’t something that you do like retirement is not something you do in your 30s. Right. So she found it very, very awkward to talk about, but now she’s really warming up to the idea because the numbers don’t lie. And at the end of the day, unless you’re an avid collector of money, I just don’t think you’d need to have like, multi million dollars just to convince your spouse a bit.

Ryan 13:43
But I wanted to get a gist of at least come to a consensus with you guys. Because if people are trying to commit their spouses to the persuasion therapy, what’s a good kind of starter to it? And Archie, I’m going to start with because you mentioned this in your episode as well, getting your spouse on board, but what’s probably one of the best or easiest wins to begin converting them?

Archie 14:10
I would say, I mean, this is just like, you should do that anyway, because they’re your spouse, find out the things that they actually want out of life. And find out the things that money can actually like, make a guess happen, and start talking to them about that. So even if it is as simple as I need to be able to, let’s just say that you’re planning to have kids and you need to be able to take a year off to essentially spend time with your kids, or you want to take a couple years off, and then you want to stay with your kids until they go to school.

Archie 14:39
That’s the thing that people can understand. And they can relate to because most of the time we kind of talk. I feel like a lot of people that are attracted to the FIRE movement are the people that are like Oh, numbers and numbers make sense. Therefore everything should make sense. And most people don’t care about the numbers.

Archie 14:54
Most people care about the emotions they care about, like what’s missing in their life and what life has to offer for them. Had they had other choices. Right? So I guess the first step, I would say would be to essentially talk to them and find out what it is that they are missing currently and what they would like for their life to look like in the future.

Ryan 15:10
Ali, what are your thoughts on this?

Ali 15:12
Well, I kind of feel like I never really had to convince my husband for like the saving part, or because we’re always on the same page money wise, it’s just I guess, when the idea of like the early retirement piece of it and I’ve kind of mellowed out and maybe come around to more of a medium ground. We’re now kind of on the same wavelength. I just want us to get more freedom and more time eventually, it’s kind of what I’m looking for in our timeline.

Ali 15:37
And so trying to convince him that find some way that he can maybe move into consulting or somewhere that can have like location freedom, rather than having to be in an office so that I don’t know if that really answers your question, but we haven’t quite you know, I haven’t had to like convince him of the like the basics for the the savings and that sort of thing.

Ryan 15:58
Yeah, but was there anything you guys maybe particularly butted heads on like was there something that you would want to spend a lot less on? In the name of

Ali 16:06
Oh definitely.

Ryan 16:07
Yeah, like like

Ali 16:12
I don’t want to get too much earlier. Like the, the you know the big ticket items the house and the the cars and that sort of thing we always kind of butt heads about I’d be quite happy to like to stick it out with a cheaper car where she gets pleasure out of driving a nicer more newer car or and we also keep our cars for a long time so I can see his point all the time of okay we should get I’ve convinced him now to go to new used car rather than new one so that was progress.

Ali 16:41
But and we use come around to my side a little bit but we still are looking at like what two years old versus the five or six I would like to go for but it’s and then and for like the house I just kind of in the end I don’t want to say I gave in because I enjoy our house as much as as he does, but definitely acknowledged that it adds a couple of years to the timeline that we could have avoided had we gone for a smaller house or a cheaper house.

Ali 17:08
And that was kind of like the compromise that we we made that he would always say it’s like, I don’t want to, like retire early just to be in a small little house. I want a place to have a little bit more space. So I gave in but I enjoy it.

Ryan 17:26
Well, it is about compromise. I mean, you are you’re in a marriage, you know, family, it’s you have to meet the middle, right? I mean, I think I’ve told this story before on the podcast, but I was very, very gung ho and I bought my home, I was going to begin pulling money out of it investing in the stock market, aka the Smith manoeuvre, and leverage investing with something I was completely comfortable with.

Ryan 17:46
I had time, age and knowledge on my side, and I thought, this is going to be perfect. And I pitched it to my wife, and I thought it was a for sure thing, and it wasn’t, you know, and it came down to it. Yeah. Where should I go? Don’t want to take on any debt, I don’t care what it’s for. I don’t care how much sense it makes, I don’t like owing money.

Ryan 18:05
And because we have a mortgage together, we would also have debt together and I don’t want that. So you know, there is a compromise and I think how to get your spouse on board is sometimes you just have to concede some of the things that you want to do. Right and Kyle Yeah, I want to turn it over to you now because is there was there any like easy wins to convince your spouse to get on board with FI that you think our listeners would definitely take away?

Kyle 18:32
Yeah, yeah, I’ll tell you exactly what not to do, which is what I did and then you can…

Ryan 18:39
We all know what not to do. But no, go ahead. What’s your version?

Kyle 18:44
So I you know, what I saw I was reading about it. I was observing it. I’m you know, quietly getting all excited about it. And then I’m trying to figure out how to bring it up. And the guy for me first got introduced to it was the guy Mr. Money Mustache, which is viewed outside of the community, this weird sounding guy like you say that name to anybody is like, Who are you following financial advice from Mr. Money Mustache?

Kyle 19:08
And so I would, you know, I would start to bring it up to my wife. Hey, you know, I been heard this guy on the Tim Ferriss podcast. And, you know, he talks about this and that and that. And then it would just look like that it was just me saying, like, I read this article from this, and I think you’re like this. And pretty soon, it became like, his name became a bad word in our house. It was like, I don’t want to hear Mr. Money Mustache again.

Kyle 19:35
And then what I realised was, you know, the, the Playing With FIRE, documentary and book that came out recently? Like, I remember reading about how they were doing and how he was 40 I think he forwarded articles to his wife saying, like, Hey, I think you would like that. And I remember reading that and thinking, that sounds so stupid, like what a lame way to do it and come to find out I read the book with my wife out loud together that Playing With FIRE book.

Kyle 20:04
She’s like, yeah, I think I would like that. Wait, what? And I guess coming full circle that something that would have been really helpful and now it’s been more helpful is realising that yes I you know we’re in a relationship together but when it comes to something like this, it’s good to use the pros in the community use the people who are not yourself and their voice and match it with their personality.

Kyle 20:32
So for instance, there is Mr. Money Mustache, but there’s also you know, she doesn’t really fit, like their personalities don’t really go together. She likes the Frugalwoods perspective a lot better. So there’s the benefit, I think, because the community’s been around long enough now that there’s different people that have taken it in different ways.

Kyle 20:51
And you can find the people that have done it in a way that you like, and so I would have would have been a lot easier is finding somebody that she would have connected with and clicked with a lot more and say hey, I was reading that this I think you would like it to and then let those people do the talking for you. And then if it flops you’re not the bad guy. But a lot of times it works out being way better than what you could have done. That’s my take

Ryan 21:21
A lot of us we read Mr. Money Mustache and it clicks so instantly that we just have to like rush home and just kick open the door and say, Honey, I’ve solved our problems and then obviously it just goes totally downhill from there, right because yeah, you know, you take a look. Yeah, you’re right. The moniker Mr. Money Mustache sounds like the cheesiest clickbait or you know, like, like the pyramid scheme or something like that, right? Like Oh, you mean the moniker and the top hat?

Archie 21:52
No, I mean, like, just the the homepage on the website. It does not look like you know, some sort of financial person. That you would listen to it seems like some dude that’s trying to make some money/

Ali 22:06
And it also has to do with when you come to the ideas right like I came to him when I was like really frustrated with my last job and wondering why the heck I was working and why did I want to stick with this and looking for my out and then you find this and you’re like come on, we can get on board we can be retired, we can retire real soon if we like save everything.

Ali 22:25
And the other person or my husband and kids question, but that I like my job I don’t want to quit if you want to quit you stay home like you don’t need to drag me down with you. So it was it was kind of coming back and with a few years perspective now that we’ve been into it trying to find the middle ground and like really focusing in on finding our best life and what that costs and saving the difference. And now he’s on quite on board with it. So I don’t know when we’ll actually retire but the we’re at least I feel like we’re going the same direction not fighting against each other for it.

Ryan 22:59
You know, I love the point that you brought up that, you know, he says, I love my job. And I think that’s like the number one spousal argument against whatever you’re trying to tell them, you know, like, because maybe you don’t want to do that future and they get all offended, like, Oh, I love my job. Thank you very much.

Ryan 23:15
And it’s kind of like my, my easiest rebuttal that you’re telling me if you got paid, regardless of whether or not you showed up to work from now until the end of time that you would continue to do your job for the foreseeable future. You wouldn’t miss one day of work, you wouldn’t play hooky and go do something else?

Ryan 23:34
And always the response is, Well, maybe one. I mean, I’m not crazy, right? You know, yeah, take a vacation. And it’s like, Well, okay, so you, you do value your own time and not just corporate interests the whole time. Like that’s what the point of this is. It’s not anti job. It’s pro you. It’s your own individuality. Right? You have your own space.

Ali 23:55
Exactly.

Archie 23:55
I think part of it is also giving people the option and then saying hey, What are the what are the things that if money wasn’t a matter you would do? Because right now, most of the time, I feel like the conversations I have with most people, they do say this, like, I love my job. And sometimes you’ve convinced yourself that you love your job.

Archie 24:13
And when you have that conversation with the person, you realise that that’s happening, and sometimes the people that realise that they love their job, also realise that. I mean, you love the job for what it is right now, with the people that you work with right now, at the salary right now, with the person that you are right now I know changes to your personal life.

Archie 24:33
It’s like there were any of these things change, you’re going to change your mind about it, and it’s not going to stay the same. And like it’s a very simple process, but it’s very hard for people to see when they are like, in love with their jobs at that moment.

Ali 24:48
Yeah, and the other argument that I get all the time is, well, what would I do without my job? It’s like, Well, you’d have time to figure it out. start figuring it out now, but I’ve got I’ve got lots of other hobbies, so I’m not worried about it. But it’s my husband always kind of worried about what he would do to fill his time if we were to retire really early. I don’t know if that’s a factor for other people.

Archie 25:10
What does he do outside of work?

Ali 25:12
There’s not much at the moment just hanging out with us and we do family stuff, but it’s like trying to convince him to do that all the time.

Archie 25:19
Right, right. I mean, like, does he realise that if he had like, even a vacation where you’d have you guys ever done staycations before?

Ali 25:28
Yeah, yeah, we know we definitely have Christmas holidays is usually or staycation type time.

Archie 25:33
Right, right.

Ali 25:34
Yeah. And that’s like, he tried to tell him that we’re, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s that constant worry. Like, we don’t need to quit. You can. It just allows you the choice to do what you want to do, whether it’s working, consulting or doing whatever it is just the the I guess the infinite positive possibilities is a little it’s always scary. To take that leap. But we’re still we’re still a few years off we don’t have to make them…

Archie 26:03
It doesn’t have to be a full leap, right? If he had to. He could just do 10 hours of it or 20 hours of it or like whatever his heart desires, right?

Ali 26:13
Yeah and and that’s what I hope will happen in this in the future when we get get closer.

Ryan 26:19
Okay, so what I’m hearing is there is a rational argument for proposing FIRE to your spouse and that kind of sense but what can you actually say like what are they the key words because we I think we inside get it right like we already we already know all this we already understand it because we’ve read the blogs and we’ve blah blah blah.

Ryan 26:40
But sometimes people don’t want to have Playing With FIRE read to them. Sometimes people don’t want to have anything to do with Mr. Money Mustache. So what are the what’s the conversation like the icebreaker, or even just like the tipping point that would actually convince you think the most amount of people to at least give it a shot or to entertain the idea?

Ali 26:59
I think for me I needed to stop focusing on the end goal of early retirement and more focused on the here and now. And the the freedom that just having the FU money would give for us and and working towards that and just like okay if we’re in a bad situation then we can we have flexibility and and just really focusing on kind of the more intermediate goals than the long term because the long term are just so far out often, even if it is like a shorter timeline and for most people.

Ryan 27:27
And Kyle, I want to turn it over to you.

Kyle 27:30
Yeah, I’m glad you asked because I was thinking about something else today which I wish I had said and there was a huge shift for our family. And it happened about a year ago and we did something very un-Mustachian and we got in-laws to watch the kids and we booked a room at a resort there was probably 10 minutes from our house. It’s ridiculous, but it was well worth it in the end, like on the surface is one of those things like people seem As a frugal guy, but then I spend money on things that don’t always make sense.

Kyle 28:03
Like, okay, you spent 500 bucks to spend a night away from your house 10 minutes down the road, but it was amazing because we went, and they had, you know, nice fireplace there in the room, and we sat down. And we had kind of been had been going through some of these discussions that arguement things. Were, it kind of came to a tipping point when we’re moving out of one place. And we’re trying to find our next place to move into and we had kind of narrowed it down to the two options. And similar to that grocery thing of like, okay, yes, like, we’re both on the same page.

Kyle 28:08
But I think this is an appropriate thing that I think this is so she had her place that she, you know, thought this fits within our goals. And I thought, well, this other place would be 400 bucks a month cheaper, and still fit within our goals, and we’re just making no headway. So yeah, get to the end of the story. We were a night away and we didn’t talk at all about where we’re moving. Instead, we talked about what, what we wanted life to look like down the road.

Kyle 29:06
Like if we were 5, 10 years down the road, if we could envision, you know, top of the mountain into the finish line, whatever you want to call it, if we could picture what our life look like them, and we spelled it out in great detail as much as we could we spelled out values for our family, you know, the things that are really important to us and that we place a lot of value on. And we spent a tonne of time doing all that and it was actually super fun and we didn’t argue at all in that time.

Kyle 29:36
And then we kind of so we what we end up doing is painting this picture of what a lifestyle would look like once we had reached that, you know, financial independence. See that time once we had reached it, what would we want our life to look like? What would be the benefits of it? And I find that that can cancel out a lot of argumentative stuff. And then once we have that in place everything else was much easier to talk about.

Kyle 30:02
And it was like, okay, we are on the same page. We do love each other we do want the same things. And then, you know, figuring out some of the more details we could always look through that lens that we created of. This is where we’re going, you know, that’s the vision of where we’re going. What’s, what’s the mission of how we’re getting there. That was massively helpful for us.

Ryan 30:22
I know this one guy, what he did was he kind of did what Kyle did, and he just put the kids somewhere else. And he took his wife out to one of her favourite restaurants. And he sat her down and he said, like, what what is it that you want like what you want to buy in life? Right? I believe he called it a dream date. And basically they just brought like a pad of paper and a pencil and stuff like that. And they’re just like, what what do you want, right? You know, and you kind of like nail down like what you both want to do.

Ryan 30:47
So for example, if you want to go to Japan, and you want to stay there for three weeks or something and you know, it’s going to cost you I don’t know, like 50 grand or something because you want to just like totally blow a bunch of money or something. I think the reason why he did something like a dream date was because you get to iron out all the things you want, okay? That cottage that trip to Japan that blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then you get to see what everything is going to cost.

Ryan 31:13
And then you realise that you want to spend like $600,000 in retirement and it’s like, we can never achieve that because we still spend like $100 a month on cable, and we have Netflix and blah blah blah and we don’t even use this cable but you’re fighting me tooth and nail about cancelling this cable. Like that’s obviously a very, like hyper focused argument. But I feel like something like that actually does work because if you can put a purpose to the reason why you’re pursuing FI, like the RE will make sense.

Ryan 31:44
And if you do want to convince your spouse, you know, to drive a Honda CRV, like Scott did in Playing With FIRE like there is an end goal for this. We’re not just doing it to be cheap money collectors, right? It’s just like So, Kyle, it sounds like that’s kind of exactly what you did. Even though you went 10 minutes away from your home, it seems like you just you had this fundamental conversation that really realigned your values with your spouse. And I think that’s really magical.

Kyle 32:12
Yeah, that was cool.

Archie 32:14
I guess I hear you guys talk about it. I’m realising that that’s kind of what we did, except like, not on purpose. Like we went on our very first like long trip ever, because one of the things I wanted to do post retirement was to just travel and I know just like that sounds like a terrible idea. Like, I would get really tired and really bored. Because we would just be running around from one place to another for no reason.

Archie 32:35
And like, he just didn’t couldn’t imagine a world where like, you know, the one week vacation could go on for life. The thing that like was missing for both of us was that like, we didn’t realise that, like, if we were to do like a lifelong vacation, we would never behave the way you would behave in like a one week vacation.

Archie 32:52
And just actually trying it out and being away from our work. And our everyday things actually helped us quantify the things that actually mattered to us. And the things that we wanted to see in our future as opposed to just because it’s really hard to have these conversations in your everyday life with your everyday things and your everyday habits, you kind of need to step away from it for you to be able to get a better perspective and like a more like macro perspective of the situation as opposed to just being really close to it and being really attached to it to a certain extent.

Ryan 33:20
Now I have a question for you guys. And Ali, I’m gonna start with you. Have you ever brought yourself any type of like community meetup or, or anything like that like something like face to face in real life? Like a ChooseFI meetup?

Ali 33:37
Yeah, I dragged him out to a ChooseFI meet up a little while ago with the kids, so he ended up just looking after the kids and kind of felt a bit awkward while I was chatting to everyone, so And yeah, he’s a bit more of an introvert so he doesn’t really like to kind of do those meetups though. I mean, I made him come. But when he realised there wasn’t really anyone else with kids. He just kind of went off with the kids in the playground.

Ryan 34:01
Oh, so he didn’t get to listen in?

Ali 34:04
No, no. So now he’s kind of like, No, you go on your own

Ryan 34:09
Because I did a Kitchener meetup and I did it because I didn’t think there was many people in my area. But this woman, Michelle, who had mentioned on the podcast before, she messaged me asking me to do it. When she showed up. She came with her husband, Tony, and he was definitely like, giving us all the eyes. Like, what kind of pyramid scheme Have you signed up? You know? suspicious, right? Like he was just like, I need to make sure that my wife is not being like, asked to port over like 50 grand, you know, for this, like, the promised land or something like that. Right?

Ryan 34:41
It was, it was kind of funny. And you know, it is it’s great because we’ve met up since then with other meetups and he’s all about talking and like he was really on the outside and to go to this in real life meetup really did help him right because he, I guess he was just never really entertaining the thought process at all. Behind, you know, the means to achieve FI. So it was just really exciting to, for me to see in real life, that kind of transition. And Archie, I’ll turn it over to you because I think you have a pretty good story about bringing your spouse to a meetup.

Archie 35:15
Yeah, I feel like I kind of, I don’t know how to do moderation. So I’m either like in, or not. That’s it. And that applies to everyone in my life, including my poor, poor spouse. So when I when we had the original conversation that we’re already kind of mentioned about how like his like genuine fear was that he would need to hang out with other retirees who in his head were like 60, 70 year olds, and he just didn’t understand the concept of it. And he didn’t understand more importantly, that there were all these other people that were involved.

Archie 35:45
And in his head, he’s also thinking, Okay, it’s a bunch of money nerds. How fun could these people be? Do I really want to hang out with these few people to begin with, right? So I originally signed a little I guess I created a Facebook account. Just literally to start the ChooseFI Toronto group, primarily because I wanted that community and I was looking for that community. And so I brought him along for the very first meetup. And primarily the first meetup. He showed up literally, because he didn’t want me to go meet random strangers on the internet by myself. So I’m showing up in case things go down. That was it.

Archie 36:24
It was just like, whatever you do your thing, I’m just showing up for safety’s sake. But it was actually pretty cool to see the interaction and and it just so happened there was a bunch of engineers that had that showed up. And he’s also an engineer. And so like, it was basically just like, he found it really easy to talk to these people. And the conversations that he had had about the exact same topic was a lot less charged when he had those conversations with these people, because the history doesn’t exist.

Archie 36:51
Like you know, the hurt doesn’t exist from all those like, conversations that we’ve had in the past, which is lovely. So they have these conversations that like I I’ve tried to have for like weeks that like within like an hour these people are having these deep meaningful conversations and he comes out changing his mind about it, which is lovely to see.

Archie 37:09
So the next step for me was to this basically put him in the Camp Mustache Toronto thing, which was like a weekend long thing that like, why not right? Like, why not? Let’s try this out. So, again, the same thing happened where he was like, Okay, I’m going to show up because you were there for an entire weekend and you really need to run away you don’t have a driver’s licence you need to drive me back!

Ryan 37:30
There’s no cars there anyway. Just bicycles. Right? You could easily steal one!

Archie 37:34
Exactly. At that time, but so he showed up and he was the person that like had the most fun you guys like I don’t know what to tell you. Like he woke up before me and then we’ll go hang out with people like during breakfast. He’d stay up well past like when I went to bed, and like he was just having the time of his life.

Archie 37:51
And so yeah, so he really loved the community and then like to obviously because I am who I am. I was like, You know what, let’s do this other thing, Chatauqua, which was like a week long thing, right? So all of this, by the way happened like, so his first ChooseFI meetup was like sometime in August or, and then like, the Camp Mustache was in September. And the Chautauqua thing was like October like all in the same year.

Archie 38:22
I was that person that threw him into it and hope that he survived. And he did. It was wonderful. And he loves this concept now and he has friends in the FIRE community just as I do, which is wonderful to see. And he seems to be like, very comfortable with it. You won’t, like, you know, initiate a meetup ever. But if there is one, he’s more than happy to show up because he already knows people.

Archie 38:42
And there’s like all these conversations that are happening that I cannot have as much about always because he just seems to. I think that’s true for pretty much every couple. I would say there’s like, there’s always those conversations that you’re better off having with somebody else and you let them have that conversation and we’re good. We hang out and then we let them change their minds, so that’s nice.

Kyle 39:01
I have nothing to add to this. And actually, I’ve not been to any meetups myself. I know it’s really encouraging hearing this story. I love it. And I guess the only thing that I would add is I’ve got some work to do for the future. It sounds like is that obviously it’s been really helpful for you guys.

Ali 39:20
Get a babysitter.

Kyle 39:22
Yeah, yeah.

Ryan 39:26
Yeah, that’s always good advice, regardless of where you’re going.

Ali 39:30
Don’t bring the kids.

Archie 39:32
This other couple that like I also went to a Camp FI event in January last year. I literally this is actually what happened. There was this couple I guess both of them could not go because they had kids. And the wife who was into FI, basically offered her to her husband to like basically was like, Okay, I will give you an entire weekend off. I’ll take care of the kids. You can go to this place, everything’s already paid for.

Archie 39:57
You just go hang out with these people. And you can come back and if hate everything we don’t have to talk about it ever again. That was her bait and switch situation. Basically she stayed home with the kids and she sent the guy who had no idea what any of this was about. And you have to see the transformation you guys like shows up on Friday like completely sceptical like looks at all of you like you know there were like what (bleep) are you gonna pull when I do not know but I’m gonna stay sober for this whole thing.

Archie 40:26
And Saturday you see him listen up and Saturday night he’s like done and like by Sunday’s like taking notes messaging his wife and his wife like basically like messaging on Facebook being like, you guys giving me a lot of tips. I don’t know what you’re doing, but keep going. So that’s another strategy. So consider it for yourself.

Ryan 40:49
That’s a good one. That’s a very good one. Kyle, I want to bring it back to you because I introduced you at the top of this podcast as being from Orillia, Ontario and I’m guessing that there is Probably not a huge scene for FI in Orillia, Ontario. In fact, I’d guess that the majority of listeners don’t know where Orillia, Ontario is.

Ryan 41:09
And so I think that might actually be a problem for quite a few Canadians that maybe it’s just a bit isolating being in these smaller cities where there is no scene. I mean, I’m in a city that I think is maybe three or four times bigger than Orilllia? I didn’t think that there’d be any scene around here. But, you know, out of nowhere, someone messages me. And then I post a meetup. And then suddenly, I got 10 people coming, you know, and it’s just like, Whoa, they just came out of the woodwork. Right.

Ryan 41:36
And maybe that’s, if I can encourage you maybe that’s something that you should try, you know, because you’re not too far off from Barrie if I’m not mistaken. So, you know, that’s a that’s a city of, I think, 100,000 people, so there’s got to be one other person that you can sit down and be like, check out the shockingly simple math behind early retirement. You know, I don’t know anything

Kyle 42:00
Yeah, no, it’s good. I had some ideas kicking around for starting at least trying it out. I was hoping to do it before the holidays but may get pushed back to January. So this is the kick in the pants I need I think to do it and we’re thinking about hosting a bit of a movie night to show the Playing With FIRE documentary is like, coming out like a fun night. And then just saying that afterwards and talking but yeah, I think it’s definitely a great idea. So I’m appreciate you guys and maybe hold me accountable in the group afterwards. I’ll let you know how it goes.

Ryan 42:32
Oh, guaranteed. I will. Yeah, that’s also why I really like the concept of not to toot my own horn here too much. But I really like the idea of doing like an online meetup because otherwise, there’s no way that you and I were going to connect Kyle like that’s not possible, right? I mean, Archie and I were able to connect because we’re closer to the Toronto so we could meet up right?

Ryan 42:52
Same thing with you Ali, like, it’s not possible for us to ever connect, unless I happen to be in Alberta one day and then you happen to be free. Then it’s almost like you know, you’re meeting some random person from the internet. You know, there’s always that kind of like awkwardness about it, right? So to go to something a little more staged, like a, like a meetup or something just like online like this, right, like, and I know that there’s no way you guys just clicked on my link. You know, the thread I post on Facebook, I said, Yeah, sure. And just like went into it. Like, you probably have seen me posting from time and time again, right?

Ryan 43:22
And you’re like, Okay, I know what this guy’s about, like, I know, it’s not just like some weird, like, fake account or spam or something like that. Right, like, so. I kind of like Yeah, I just really liked the idea of an online meetup because it lets people who feel isolated to be able to participate, you know, and for anybody listening like it’s not like we’re using webcams here. Like we’re not all just looking at each other for the very first time and, and trying to make something happen.

Ryan 43:44
It’s actually really quite easy, and to do to host it in real life. It’s actually even easier. I remember like, I would create a few in Toronto, and Archie you can probably weigh in on this as well, but people always like really grateful and thankful to like thank you so much for scheduling this like Like almost like they didn’t know how I could manage it, right? And it’s like, I just created a Facebook like group, or you just like an event? Like I just clicked the thing at the time and said, Come here. And I like yeah and show up. And if people messaged me, like, can you change the time? No.

Ryan 44:19
Not bending to anybody else’s will. Like this is what it is and show up whether or not you want to. And Archie, I know some people in the ChooseFI Toronto group like the message like when’s the next meetup? And it’s like, why don’t you create one? You know, like, it’s not hard It really creating a podcast hard. Maybe maybe scheduling your own online meetup might prove to be a bit more difficult. But doing an in real life meetup is actually really easy. Don’t you think so, Archie?

Archie 44:45
Absolutely. I cannot like I keep encouraging people to do it. I feel like you were basically the only person that has actually tried. I think part of it is also they just don’t realise how many other people are like them want to meet other people in real life, and everyone just thinks they’re just by themselves, even though you can see like the Choose FI Toronto group is what, like 600 people or something right now. So like, you know, odds are that there is somebody that cares, but they’re just like, no, it must be just me. And nobody else cares about this.

Ali 45:16
I think everyone’s afraid to make the first step. But it’s like and just waiting for someone else to do it, then it’s a lot easier to go, go once it’s done. But it’s like, it’s not that scary to make the first step.

Archie 45:28
Yeah.

Ryan 45:30
You know what, but there’s also, you know, a power to teaming up with somebody, right? So if you want to do a meet up, and you know, you could just you don’t have to post the event, you could just be like, does anyone else want to do it? And chances are, you’ll get like one or two other people. Minimum that will be like, yeah, that’s awesome.

Ryan 45:45
And then you can just literally message that person and say, like, Hey, where do you want to do it? Like, like, Where are you from? Because I don’t want to schedule something in the West End. If you’re like an hour’s drive in the East End kind of thing, right? Like, if you can coordinate with even just one other person, you can typically get a good event going. And then even if you only got like a few people, Archie for our first meetup together, there’s only four of us. But it was a, it was an awesome meetup. Like we covered so much stuff. We talked for two hours and it felt like five minutes.

Ali 46:15
Yeah. And I’ve been to about four or five now of the Edmonton meetups that we’ve had, and they’ve Yeah, they’ve definitely have grown as people have seen they kind of missed the first one and then see it happening it again. It’s like, okay, there were some people that showed up. I’ll go with this next time.

Archie 46:32
Yeah, absolutely. When I my family’s in Edmonton, and when I came there last summer, I guess I’d never been at a meetup before or maybe there was, but no one has actually, like, No one said anything on the thing. So there literally was one person that showed up to this meetup that I tried to talk to people that showed up to this meetup that I organised.

Archie 46:50
And that’s fine because it actually felt like a very intimate conversation with people. And that’s perfectly okay. Like you’re not trying to organise an event and if it overwhelms you at the thought of like having like 40 people show up is overwhelming to you put a limit on the number of people and then just try it and see what happens.

Ryan 47:09
Let’s see if we can go through a little bit of a summary here a little bit of a checklist. So if we want to get our spouse on board do Can we just uninam- Oh gosh, that is a tough word to say. Uninamo- Oh my gosh, I can’t say that word. No, here we go. I’m I shouldn’t have created a podcast if I can’t say complicated words. But here we go. Can we all just collectively agree that sending our spouses to Mr. Money Mustache right off the get go might be a bit of a risky manoeuvre? Should we say? We would all agree with that or no?

Ali 47:47
Yeah,

Archie 47:49
I’d say so.

Ryan 47:50
So if we were to send them a link or anything like that, like I guess it doesn’t really make sense. Like To me, it doesn’t really make sense just to be like, here’s am article or something like that. And Just go with it because there’s so many wonky directions that a lot of people take it. Like if I send an article about the FIRE movement, and it’s all about happiness, it’s going to sound like a cult, right? Like, that’s the way it’s going to come off.

Ryan 48:11
And if it’s all about the money and your spouse is not like super savvy with numbers, then it’s going to sound very technical, and then they’re not going to be about it. So I feel like the best way to do it is probably something like that dream date that I talked about before. Would you guys to think that that’s probably the best way to approach getting your spouse on board starting that, that that therapy that I mentioned before? Like, the FIRE persuasion therapy, I’m gonna trademark that that’s gonna be a physical product that you can buy. But would you guys all agree with that?

Ali 48:45
Yeah. Your why.

Archie 48:47
But also, the other thing that I would recommend that works is so for instance, one of my friends is a crazy cat lady who loves cats and everything about cats. I’ve tried to talk to her about finance for the longest time and just doesn’t work because I’m talking to her about a thing that she doesn’t care about.

Archie 49:05
And there’s one random day I just said it for fun. If there was a crazy cat lady that was also into FIRE, Googled it, found a person kind of blog, read a couple things, sent it to my friend. And now she reads this blog, and she knows words that I could not have paid her to remember, like a year ago. I’m just saying, consider the thing that they like, and try to combine that with money and see if they like it. So odds are if the person has a family, and they have kids, they’re going to relate to people that have families and they have kids.

Archie 49:36
If the person is a single person, then they’re likely to relate to that person that is a single person, if they are living in the city, they’re likely to relate with people that live in the city. If they like travel, they’re going to relate to people that you know, do the travel thing. So look for the thing that is outside of money that they care about, and see if there is any blogger that cares about it. So if they’re really into dinosaurs, guess who you’re going to direct them to, they can there’s all these people that like have these real niches. So find those people and share to them and see what happens.

Ryan 50:05
Yeah, you know what, actually I really liked that because especially on the travel part, right, so I’ve shown my wife Millennial Revolution before, but she’s like she didn’t want she didn’t take to it at all. And I think the reason why is that, you know, we have an established suburbian life, you know, we own homes, we own cars, and we have a child together and all that like Millennial Revolution in a lot of ways is there at least their blog and their content is the opposite direction of that right?

Ryan 50:31
Now, I know if especially if you’ve read Quit Like a Mllionaire, you know, that we can’t, we shouldn’t be judging them for their choices. Of course not right, but it just goes to show that if you send the wrong niche to the wrong person, it’s just never going to click right.

Ryan 50:44
You know, they’re probably something more like Root of Good, you know, or the guy is American living in North Carolina and he has three kids, you know, and he’s very much like the suburban family like that would click a lot more with some people and it’s probably sending People A link is not the right way to start them into their trademark, FIRE persuasion therapy. Ali, you’re saying something?

Ali 51:16
It’s just it just like they’ll just pick out on the differences and get stuck on those. Like, I don’t want to travel. So I’m not going, like why would I want to do this? And so they Yeah, they just turned off all the other ideas and the benefits that can give you if they’ve if you’ve gotten the wrong choice.

Ryan 51:32
Okay, so let’s let’s hash this out really quickly, because I totally want this checklist to be like the show notes of this of this episode. So FIRE persuasion therapy trademark, step one. Do the dream date. Do we all agree with that? Do you think that’s probably the best thing to do is just, yeah, you know, find a babysitter and just talk about it, make sure that the values like the things you want even the most craziest things like you want to be the person that settles Mars, like make sure that you guys are on the same page for that and then kind of layer in the finances that would make that a reality.

Ali 52:10
Yeah, work backwards from that.

Ryan 52:13
Kyle, you’ve been silent

Kyle 52:14
Yeah, I’m gonna disagree a little bit. Like I’m going to say that dream date, 100% but do it second like start with you know how she was saying send the crazy cat lady articles about FI? Try to match their personality with articles in the same way that you like, you know, my buddy I he’s really into hiking or something and I saw this really sweet back back and I think you’re like it the same way that that happens.

Kyle 52:42
Like, you know. Send me this thing. You would naturally do that. I saw this sweet movie. You got to see this movie, the same way that you would do that. send those things to spark the ideas in the head. And then I think do the dream date as like, Okay, what is all this stuff you’ve been we’ve been kind of back and forth about? And it’s kind of a more of a, the other ones are starting the conversation and then the dream date’s like a culmination of I guess. That’s where I’m headed, I think.

Ryan 52:56
Okay. No, actually, I think you’re right. I think Ali and Archie, I think you’re also in agreement. Right? This kind of makes sense.

Archie 53:17
Yeah, absolutely. Yep. Okay. Inception needs to happen outside of you. It needs to happen to somebody else. Yeah.

Ryan 53:25
Okay. Okay. I had a three step process. Now it’s expanded to four. So, step one for FIRE persuasion therapy. Okay, guys, we’re doing this. Step one is to send them a link that you know that like will jive with them. Okay. Don’t send them Mr. Money Mustache because it jives with you send them what’s going to work them, right.

Ryan 53:43
I think that’s Kyle. That’s what you’re saying. Yep. Right. Okay. So step one is crazy cat lady niche. Step two is the dream date. Right? We got that now? We’re good? Okay. Step three, could step three, be like a meetup. Yeah, or is that too soon.

Archie 54:02
I think you should use your judgement to figure out whether or not they’re ready for it.

Ali 54:05
I was gonna say, I think it’s more like focusing on the, the now or the intermediate goals like, okay, we get this much money, what can we do we get this what’s like, what extra freedom does this give us? And just like each step, really kind of, like focusing on what benefits you get, what extra freedom have you gained from accumulating this much?

Archie 54:26
I like that.

Ryan 54:27
Great, and you could and you can also learn that from other people as well, right? Because sometimes they just need to hear from somebody else much like Archie was saying, right? You know, like, sometimes it just goes better from somebody else. And that’s why I think implementing the community at this point might be something really beneficial.

Ryan 54:41
If they don’t volunteer it themselves, then maybe you can just kind of gently push something on to them. Like, I’m gonna go to this meetup for like, I’m going to go to this convention or something like that, or Camp Mustache or what have you. And like, it doesn’t have to be like right away. You could just be like, I plan on going to something like this right? And then just kind of Like hashing out the details or what have you on that.

Ryan 55:02
So I think that would make a pretty good step three. Are we all in agreement? Yeah. Developing the community, I guess, that outside of the relationship. And then, and this is where everybody gets it wrong judging by the long history of arguments between spouses about discovering FI that’s probably when, after all that has happened, especially after the community aspect that you can then give the final blow, which would be like, the super technical stuff, you know, this could be like the Mr. Money Mustache.

Ryan 55:38
And it doesn’t have to be like so technical that like, you’re reading like a wall of numbers from like Ed Rempel’s blog or something like that, but it could just be like something like, like, the shockingly simple math behind early retirement or Yeah. Yeah, you know, like, like, just just something like that, where it’s just like, kind of like the granddaddy of the philosophy of why you’re even going to bother doing this and why That new person you met is also bothering to do this.

Kyle 56:03
Yeah, I like that.

Archie 56:05
I think I also want to mention that maybe that’s an optional step, depending on the person that your spouse is, and depending on how your relationship is set up, because a lot of people don’t actually care about the logistics of it. A good number.

Ali 56:19
Yeah, I’ve got friends that have no interest. Yeah.

Archie 56:22
And I think that’s okay, so long as you can have a conversation with them and say, this is the thing that we’re working towards. And this is what everyday things look like, they don’t have to be involved in the solutioning of the whole, like, how exactly does the dream, I guess, like, how do you need to change your life right now to figure out the dream to happen in the future? I think if they if you get to a point where you guys are on the same page and they trust you to make those decisions, then maybe it’s an optional step for them.

Ryan 56:51
Okay, I like that. So, just to summarise step one, niche step two, Dream date, step three, community and optional step four, philosophy or technicality? Yeah, then you know like this. Yeah, like the mainstream FIRE stuff where you’re just like, okay, thank you for boarding the aeroplane that is the FIRE movement. Here is the mandatory reading and then you could just send like all the links you’ve ever saved or loved or something like that. That’s when you just bombard them right?

Ali 57:23
I took out ten books from the library for you to read!

Ryan 57:26
Yes. Have you ever heard of Vicki Robbins cuz you’re about to. Alright guys, well, I think this meetup has gone on long enough. I do want to end it on a positive note though, because I do want to just pass the mic so to speak around one more time and just get your take on. Kyle. When I first posted this thread to Facebook, you messaged me saying like I’ve done a lot for my family and I’m like, so grateful for this community.

Ryan 57:54
And I thought that was just like really warming. I want to turn it over to everybody just individually for the last minute or so, and just say, what has what’s been the best part of FI in terms of helping you and your family? And so Kyle, I’m going to start with you.

Kyle 58:08
Yeah, you know, it’s it’s way more than money and working or not working. And when you are financially independent, and it started with that, and I’m naturally frugal person by nature. But then, way, it’s impacted us a lot more as it’s unreal, having getting to have those dream dates, per se. And being intentional about our lives instead of you know, waking up 10 years down the road be like, Oh, this is where we are, like, planning that vision and then working towards it together. It’s just been unbelievable.

Kyle 58:44
And, yeah, I mean, it’s, you’re still going to have some bumps along the road and butt heads along the way. But having a bit more financial stability is always good for a relationship because there’s less tension in that. And then yeah, I think Like I said, I, it started off with the money thing, but then it come to find out, you know, riding your bike to work is actually good for your body to and it’s good for the Earth. And you know, it’s actually fun to get outside with your family and do that kind of stuff.

Kyle 59:14
So it’s totally fully encompassing and just really good groups of people that I’ve, you know, started to connect more with like you guys. It’s been awesome. And yeah, so it’s been kind of a cool thing that we’ve bonded together as a family. And then as I started to connect, connect with other people as well, so I’m just totally digging it. And I appreciate you guys and this is good stuff.

Ryan 59:38
Oh, that is awesome to hear. Ali, I’m going to turn it over to you. What has the FIRE movement done for you and your family? The best thing?

Ali 59:47
I think it’s really kind of made me start to focus in on what is my best life and trying to figure out what do I need to get there and what do I want like before, I was just always kind of stuck in a scarcity mindset of Okay, we need to save up for I don’t know, how much will need when we need it and then the FI movement just kind of put everything together.

Ali 1:00:06
It’s like okay, there’s a goal or number isn’t as high as I initially thought we would need to be. And now what how do we get there? Well, let’s just we can cut back on the things that don’t matter and really focus in on what is important and what what do we enjoy doing like, and and just always kind of really think of, okay, was this a good family activity because especially with young kids going to like the big amusement parks fun once a year, but the kids end up exhausted and you’re just like, we would’ve had a better day Just going for a walk to the park. So it’s just focusing on on really what is important.

Ryan 1:00:43
I love it. I love it. Archie, that means you.

Archie 1:00:47
I was thinking about this. I feel like right off the bat. Of course we were. We were not on the same page. But the whole concept of FIRE forced us to have very deep and meaningful conversations and I feel like that Definitely, from that point of view, we were able to not only like be better at communicating with each other, but also align on certain values. And also to certain extent, I would say, being able to afford these values, right, like in everyday life.

Archie 1:01:13
So if we said something was important to us, we didn’t have to make the choice between like having to feed our families or this value anymore because we had our like us like I ducks in a row when it comes to money. So we didn’t always have to make those choices. So that was wonderful. And I’d say also the concept of abundance mindset was something that like, I understood in theory, but like just did not could not wrap my head around, but I feel like more so as on the way to like a towards figuring out this whole FIRE thing.

Archie 1:01:43
The conversation of enough and the concept of what enough is has come up so many times and that lead lead you into a naturally talking about like, what is enough and what what does that mean for other people and once you’ve figured out what your enough is, and sometimes it’s not as much as you think it is. You have space for other people in your life and space for things that other people want and their life and you realise that it’s not a zero sum game, and you can make choices that are like, that are available to you as a result of you not having to worry about money and feeding families, which is definitely like a luxury, I’d say that I would not be able to afford had I not been in the past FI.

Ryan 1:02:20
That’s such a good answer. I loved all your answers. And just to echo everything that you three have already said, you know, with my answer is it’s really just a combination, right? I mean, if we can think about it in terms of like a pie chart, you know, I found that 90% of my unnecessary spending was going to things I really didn’t care about and 10% was and when you introduce the financial independence script into your life, and you begin to just be more intentional about the things that you actually want to spend both your time and your money on, you find that the pie chart begins to flip and then you realise that there are some things that you can’t really get around and You don’t really care about spending, but you have to.

Ryan 1:03:02
And then there is the stuff that you do get to do that you really like. And so instead of having like a 90/10, you know, allocation, instead you begin to go like, Well, you know, 60% of my time is stuff I really want to do. And I no longer have to spend, you know, super expensive cell phone plan because I don’t care who provides my cell phone coverage, I just need it. Like, I don’t know, doesn’t matter to me, if it says Telus or Rogers, or Public Mobile, like I don’t care what the name is, I just want the cheapest plan possible for the exact same quality that I would expect from anybody else.

Ryan 1:03:34
So I feel like To me that is, the best thing that’s happened for me and my family is that we’ve really become much more intentional spenders and because of that we can lower our expenses so much and then get to FIRE sooner which inevitably just unlocks more time in your life. So I really appreciate you three coming on. Thank you guys so much, Archie, Ali, and Kyle for joining us on the the third ever edition of the online meetup and for hashing out the new trademark that I got here the FIRE persuasion therapy.

Ryan 1:04:07
I really think it’s going to catch on guys. And I will if I sell any merchandise with it, I’ll be sure to give you each your cut. Okay. Okay, well, guys have a great night and Oh, thank you. Yeah, no see this one. This one took a lot of work to organise. So I’m glad. Okay, guys, I hope each of you have a great night and we’ll see you next time.

Outro
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4 Replies to “021: Online Meetup | Getting Your Spouse on Board With FIRE”

  1. I would love to attend an event but unfortunately choosefi seems to be centered around facebook. Are there any plans in the future to set up a more private community?

    1. Can’t speak for ChooseFI but I’ve been active on reddit and am thinking of starting a subreddit for our podcast. I think that can alleviate the privacy concern plus its a low-barrier to entry platform that everybody can get. What do you think, Mike?

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