Sharon’s alcoholic father and dependent mother had low expectations for her future. Determined not to follow in her mother’s footsteps, Sharon fought back against her family’s traditional, stifling beliefs.
In the interview, she reveals her incredible journey out of adversity and into independence. Sharon’s story is full of twists and turns, including eight years teaching overseas, meeting her now-husband, and a move back to Canada.
It’s never easy breaking free from familial patterns and beginning anew. And yet, Sharon managed to accomplish this and get herself on the path to FI. We hope you’re as inspired by Sharon’s courageous story as we are.
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Money Mechanic
Hello, listeners. Welcome to Explore FI Canada, where we sit at the roundtable with Canadians, and share their thoughts, ideas and personal journeys to financial independence.
Thanks to Matt McKeever for sponsoring Explore FI Canada. Matt is a Canadian investor, CPA, entrepreneur, and real estate expert who achieved FIRE at age 31. Do us a favour and check out his YouTube channel by searching Matt McKeever or using the link in our show notes.
Money Mechanic
All right, welcome all you lovely listeners to another episode of Explore FI Canada Money Mechanic is with you. And of course, my co host Chrissy.
Chrissy
Hello, my friend. How are you doing today?
Money Mechanic
I have a giant smile on my face. I’m feeling good. How about you?
Chrissy
Me too!
Money Mechanic
Yes, well, we’ve got another exciting episode for our listeners, we’ve got another interview you and I have to do an episode by ourselves one of these days. You know.
Chrissy
I know. We keep keep saying that.
Money Mechanic
We keep keep saying that. But we keep getting good guests. So Sharon reached out to us and sent us her story. And you and I both read it. And we thought that it’s super fascinating. It’s interesting. It’s maybe a little bit different than the high earner straight to FI type path. And that’s part of what this podcast is about is exploring everybody’s journey and getting to FI whenever they get to FI so a secondary also to that is that Sharon’s from Atlantic Canada, which is awesome to have somebody else from that side of the country as well. So we’re getting around, we’re gonna have to start making a list of the provinces we haven’t hit, and do reach out for some of those. But yeah, what do you think Chrissy?
Chrissy
I’m excited to talk to Sharon. I shouldn’t say excited. But I really want to share a story like hers, because she emailed us and said, I don’t think you’ve spoken to someone like me. And I think the story needs to be told. And a big part of her story is that she came from a life of adversity growing up. And that’s really shaped how her financial future went. And I’d love for you to start us off on your story, Sharon, and then tell us where life started and how it was so difficult for you.
Sharon
Hi, thank you for having me.
Chrissy
You’re welcome. We’re happy you’re here.
Money Mechanic
Great to have you here.
Sharon
Thank you. Um, yeah, I grew up in a town in eastern Canada. And I was an only child. My father was the main breadwinner in the home. My mother was a housewife, like a lot of people were of their generation. They were born in the 30s. My father back then you could get a good job by not going to university. My father, I think had Grade 5 education. He was the oldest of I think it was 14 children. I still don’t know any of them. So I think it’s 14. And he had to quit school early to take care of the siblings, the younger children. And I guess when he, I don’t know what age he turned, but he was an adult. And he got hired by the power company in the province. And he became a power engineer with Grade 5 education. They trained him on the job, he did courses. And he worked with them for I think 31 years. And it’s funny because I have a cousin now whose husband has a master’s degree in engineering. He was working at the same company and actually got laid off a few years ago. So times have changed. So yeah, my father was a power engineer at the power company, which was a pretty good job back then. And my mother was a housewife, very traditional. She She grew up in a family of 10. And I was an only child. Unfortunately, my father was an alcoholic. And my mother was a good Christian woman, Catholic woman who didn’t believe in divorce at the time, and she was fully reliant on him for financial support. So I was a bit of a rebel when I was young, and it was hard living in that kind of environment. So as I became a teenager, I caused so much trouble that my mother was forced to move out with me. Because I was causing such trouble in the household because I said, This is ridiculous. I can’t live like this. Anyway, my mother did not have a job, because she didn’t really have any skills because she had been a homemaker for all those years. And she had to go on what they call now government assistance, but back then it was called welfare. So myself and my mother were living in a bachelor apartment. She slept on a single bed, and I slept on the sofa in the room. So we did that for a couple of years. Until I went to university, I did go to university. Most of my friends were studying sciences or medicine. I didn’t really have any idea what I wanted to do, but I just remember it was 1989, maybe. And the Winter Olympics were on. And I really liked the Russian hockey team. And I said, Okay, this is what I’m going to study, I’m going to study Russian literature and language, this is great!
Money Mechanic
Jobs are guaranteed in that!
Sharon
Because back then, trade school was frowned upon. No one in my group of friends would dare go to be a hairstylist, or study a two-year certificate program at the trade school. That would be shameful, especially in…
Chrissy
I just want to ask, why is that because especially in a small town, you’d think that those are the kinds of jobs that most people have? Because there often there aren’t, there may be one big industry, but you would need services and things like that to support those people that work in these industries.
Sharon
So why is it that would be so frowned upon when I would think that a lot of people would work jobs like that, I think it was because it was just my immediate group of people, my friends, were all very clever. And, you know, now they’re doctors and lawyers, and chemists. And my mother’s side of the family was very successful, and business people. And not my father’s side. But my mother’s side. And, and I was a I didn’t want to be looked down upon because I felt that they were I felt that my family was looked down upon because of what was happening. So I didn’t want them to look down on me further. So I said, I’m just going to go to university, which looking back now, you know, when you’re in your 40s, look back when you’re 18. You say oh lord anyway, so I went to university, my father did pay for my university, because it was very cheap. It was $500 a semester, plus books. But my final year, I took out a student loan, because I did not want to be seen as dependent on him. I didn’t want, because growing up, money was always a thing you’d hang… that would be held over the other person, like I make the money, you’re living off my money. I didn’t want to hear that. So I took out a student loan in my last year. So I borrowed $3,000, because I wanted to be independent. So after that, I graduated with a double major, actually, in English literature and Russian language and literature. Just to make it even more useful, and I had part-time jobs, and in in that province at the time, you will get temporary jobs that would last, you know, 10 weeks, eight weeks, and you would just try to work enough so you’d have enough weeks to get your unemployment. And I think back then it was 19 weeks of work and you get your unemployment, the economy was miserable back then. And the unemployment rate I think was 13%.
Money Mechanic
Wow.
Sharon
And you had a university in in the city. And just imagine all those students graduating every year when you have an unemployment rate of 13%. So, anyway, I took off to Russia thinking this is great. I’m just going to go to Russia. And I went to Russia three times or twice, actually. And every time I left home, unfortunately, my mother would then take that as an opportunity to move back home with my father. Because then I was out of the picture. So she didn’t have to listen to me complaining and she was a good Christian woman. So she moved back. So my first trip to Russia, and I went back home and she had moved in with my father. So I had to live there. And I just said this is I just can’t do this. So after I graduated, I went back to Russia again for I think it was six months. And before that, actually I had been at my university, and they have a bulletin board with jobs posted. I was desperately looking for a job that my wonderful skills would be useful for. And I saw a job advertised teach English in Japan. And I knew nothing about Japan. I had no interest in Asia. I was only interested in Eastern Europe. But unfortunately, Russia didn’t have a lot of money to spend, to pay people like me who didn’t really speak the language very well, but like the literature, so I said, Oh, Japan, this is interesting, okay. And even I don’t even know if there was internet back then. That’s how old I am.
Chrissy
What year was this?
Sharon
It was 1994 or 1995.
Chrissy
Okay.
Sharon
I had spent two years still in the province, just doing my little odd jobs that would last, you know, eight weeks to 12 weeks, whatever. Or even sometimes just Christmas, working at Walmart stocking shelves at night. So I applied for this job to teach English in Japan. I was so shy, I had no siblings. I didn’t know how was I going to teach any anyone that I knew I applied because I was desperate. And then I went to Russia for six months, while I was in Russia. My mother actually called me and said, you have to go to Montreal to the Japanese Embassy for an interview. I said, Oh, my God, this is so exciting. So I left Russia, went back to my home, got ready for this interview in Montreal. And it was it was so it was so weird. Like what Japan and the interview went very weird, because I just didn’t know what I was doing. Like I didn’t know what they wanted. I didn’t anyway, so I got the job.
Chrissy
Wow.
Money Mechanic
That is quite the childhood. I can definitely. It resonates with me. I remember some of those times I grew up with a single mom, I was also encouraged to go to university and I totally know what you’re talking about, where all my friends were going to UBC and I there’s no way I could afford to go to UBC and I went to the I went to General Studies at local Kwantlen College. So the same thing was like what do you get? What job do you get from General Studies?
Sharon
Yeah.
Money Mechanic
And the trades, stigma existed back then as well. But I was very lucky to be encouraged. And I ended up in trades that I’m thankful that I did. It’s interesting that in your story, too, as you said, if you could go back in time, you would have taken something in the trades. And we’ve talked about this on the show before how, you know, there’s many, many different paths that we all take, but the trades will get you there as well. And, and I also really resonate with your story of, you know, the the money being held over you. And it was, you know, not under my roof type thing. And it was just a stressor that I feel that you and I both felt growing up that it’s interesting I kind of that you took it on your own to to get that student loan, and to start moving forward and and adventuring overseas. I think that’s super fantastic. Chrissy?
Chrissy
Yeah, something I wanted to point out that you emailed to us, that you said, made me sad, but it kind of sums up, you know, the childhood that you grew up with how you said, my mom did not have high aspirations for me as a woman, and for you to have grown up with that kind of attitude towards you as a woman, and turn around and change your life so completely from the way you grew up? How, how did you do that? I just find it amazing when people are able to change their circumstances completely from what they grew up with.
Sharon
I think I grew up very close to my mother. But watching her and how she lived her life. She taught me what not to do, just by her actions, the way she was living, did not help her in any way. So I knew she was not the one to take advice from. She had a very, I’d say a very sheltered life. She was a housewife who would stay in the kitchen all day. And she really had no life. And she, and I knew she wasn’t one that I should sit and take life advice from. So I just went my own way.
Chrissy
Well, I think it takes some personal insight to see that because not everyone does that. You know, some people will just keep following the same pattern.
Sharon
Yeah, yeah, I had to do something because nothing was going to change, living where I was living in the city. There was no options for me, and there was no way I’d be able to move out because you’d never be able to get a job that would pay enough money. But before I did go overseas, the one thing I did manage to do from my part time jobs was pay off my student loan. So before I left, like I was so anti-debt, I said oh my god, I owe $3,000 but that I just paid it off. And that was done. And I’ve always been I didn’t have money. But when I did for my part time jobs, I valued it. I always had that because my parents, they back then they never had credit cards. They shared a car. They had a simple home. If they didn’t have the money, they wouldn’t buy anything. And then they had the same sofa, you know the older generation some of them they have the same sofa set for 45 years in the same position in the living room. You know what I mean? So they were so I don’t want to say frugal, because my mother was a chain smoker. So she spent her money on cigarettes. And my father was an alcoholic, and he would buy a bottle of liquor every day. But that’s the only thing they spent money on and groceries. So I mean, I didn’t, then there was no such thing as cell phones and computers and things back then. So we didn’t need anything. Yeah, right. It was a different world.
Money Mechanic
Different time. Yeah, I could relate. I’m, I’m old enough to remember back then.
Sharon
I think we’re probably the same generation.
Money Mechanic
We are definitely there. Yeah, yeah. And and I think that’s what you know, I like about your stories, because we’re getting to the point now where you’ve taken the chance to become an expat. And I can relate directly to that as well, being an expat myself. So it’s amazing that you took a chance you saw something on a bulletin board, you said, Sure. Why don’t I go to Asia? Right. I think I think that’s awesome. So okay, let’s get back into the story where you you’d sent you’d gone to Montreal for this kind of strange interview at the Japanese embassy and you’re like, Okay, sure, I guess what, so what happens next?
Chrissy
I just want to jump in. Before we go into your story, you said something funny, and I want to mention. So before you left for Japan, you said I still remember my aunt seeing me off at the airport saying you will never last there. We will see you back here in two weeks. That’s what launched you into Japan. So tell us how things went?
Sharon
Yes. Because that was my mother’s sister. So that’s the side of the family that were quite successful. And when she said that to me at the airport, and I was afraid I wouldn’t last. Like honestly, in my heart, I’m saying, Oh my god, what am I doing? But it was an exchange program. I was going with other people. So I said, Okay, there’ll be some support. But when she said that to me at the airport, in my mind of like, there’s no way in Heck, I’m coming back here now. There’s no way you’re not gonna see me again for like 10 years.
Money Mechanic
I’m gonna prove you wrong!
Sharon
Right? Yes, I’m very spitey like that. If you tell me I can’t do it. Like my mother was my mother even told me. I can’t go to university. She didn’t think I could do it. So I said, Well, you know what, I’m going to do it. It might be Russian literature, but I’ll do it. I’m not going to be a medical doctor. But
Chrissy
I love your spunk.
Money Mechanic
Yeah, I think that’s one of the traits that all of us need to have a little bit of to join the FIRE movement or to set the goal for financial independence. You gotta you kind of have to have that. You know, don’t do what everybody else does to get what you want done in the end. Yeah.
Sharon
So before I left for Japan, I actually a cousin of mine had a friend who was a financial planner. She was in her 20s. And I knew her. So I went to see her and I said, Listen, I’m going to be going to Japan, and I’m going to be making some money. I still didn’t really know how much it was. And I said, I guess I have to set up something. Anyway, I set up. I don’t even know what kind of account it was right now. And then I set up preauthorized contributions. Anyway, it’s a long story, but I did something before I left.
Money Mechanic
You had preauth mutual funds set up and you didn’t even know what you’re doing. It’s perfect!
Sharon
I didn’t know like, because later I became a non-resident. So I don’t know how that worked. I just can’t remember it was so long ago. Yeah. So I left for Russia for Where did I go, Japan, Japan, and I was scared to death. And it was 36 degrees and humid and where I’m from 20 degrees is a heatwave. So I remember my first week in my three meter by three meter apartment, and it was 36 degrees and there was no air conditioning. And I, that day, I had gone to the supermarket to buy groceries. It was the first time I went to the supermarket. And I needed sugar for my tea. And when I got home and put it in my tea, I discovered it was a bag of salt instead of sugar. And I cried and I cried. I was so hot. And I said, oh my lord, anyway, eight years later, so no, it was it was wonderful. I was making good money. I was working in high school, which was not it wasn’t really my cup of tea because the the students were not really keen on learning English. Right? They weren’t paying money to learn English. They were forced to learn English, but I worked there for three years. I’d finished my whole three year contract a lot of other foreign teachers stayed for a year or two, and maybe about 25% stay the whole three years.
Chrissy
So is it because they just didn’t like the lifestyle or it was too challenging for them? And so they cut their contracts early?
Sharon
A lot of them especially the men, foreign, not foreign men, but North American or British men, found Japanese wives would bring them back to Canada. Or they were just done. They said, Okay, I just did this for a year. That’s all I wanted to do. But for me, I had a different a different opinion. I was like, I’m gonna, I’m gonna stick with this as long as I can.
Chrissy
I guess you got used to Japan and living there and being away from Canada.
Sharon
Yeah. And it’s funny because Japan is it’s not anywhere I would think I want to be but it was, it was fabulous. The people I think I’ve heard before and I really think that Canadians and Japanese are, are closer in character, then American Americans and Japanese are complete opposite.
Chrissy
Yeah, you’re right.
Sharon
Canadians are a little bit more modest, and quiet. And I think we do very well in Japan.
Money Mechanic
Well, Chrissy is really jealous, because I think that’s her ultimate goal. We were talking about where you’d live in the world. And you said Tokyo, Chrissy. And I was surprised. But yeah, that’s awesome. But yeah, but you did more than just teach English there, didn’t you? You did meet a lovely Japanese guy. You said.
Sharon
Yes!
Money Mechanic
How did that kind of work out coming together in a foreign country? And how did the finances work for you as a couple?
Sharon
I met him at a party for English students, adult English students, he was invited to be my entertainment. Because none of the students could speak English well enough. It was a it was a class at the community center. And most of the men were like middle aged men who just wanted to get together in the hopes of meeting Japanese women. They were all single, but they were… anyway… And none of them could speak very good English. So that’s why hubbie my future hubby was invited just to talk to me and keep me occupied for the night. And he did that very well. And that was in the first few months I was in Japan. And within a week, we knew we wanted to get married. And I never thought, someone from where I was from, and a Japanese person would click. But it was unbelievable. So we wanted to get married immediately. But we couldn’t because it would cause a bit of a scandal in the town. So I waited till I finished my contract and we moved to a bigger city and we got married. And but while we were dating, he was a smoker. And he quit cold turkey. Because I he wasn’t allowed in my house with cigarettes. He had a car loan. He had bought a very he was a you know, single man. He had a car loan. I gave him the money. I said, Here pay this off. He was spending $10 a day on lunch. And he stopped once he met me.
Chrissy
You were a good influence on him.
Sharon
Yeah. And he’s a wonderful man. And I’m so happy I met him. And I’m glad he kind of had the same mindset as me or he eventually he learned to have the same mindset. He just didn’t know how to handle money. He was I thought he was working at the airport. And I said, Wow, here’s a he seems like a very well off Japanese man. This is wonderful. Wow, how lucky I am. And it was after a few dates. And we’d be going out wining and dining. Well, you know, izakaya. And I learned that he was making $1,300 a month. And yet he was driving this fancy car and smoking and buying his lunch every so that all changed. I took over that anyway.
Chrissy
Good for you. I think. I think a lot of us are like your husband. We’re not. We’re not bad with our money, but we’re not optimized. And a lot of times we’re kind of mindlessly going through life. So sometimes it doesn’t take a lot for someone to come along and teach you the ropes and steer you in a better direction and then you slowly wake up and it sounds like that’s what you did for him.
Sharon
I think so. And when we moved to the bigger city and finally started life together, we then had a goal. The goal was eventually to move back to Canada. He had a dream he wanted to be a Canadian lumberjack.
Money Mechanic
Nice. Plaid shirt and all.
Sharon
Cuz that was his image of Canada for some reason he imagined lumberjacks with you know the man with the beards and very manly and stuff and I didn’t know if there were lumberjacks. I think I actually googled it. I think back then there was the internet then. And I googled Canadian lumberjacks because I didn’t know is this like the Beachcombers I have no idea. So eventually then he decided on carpentry. He wanted to be a carpenter. And he started studying on his own in Japan. And we were both working. And I was teaching at a language school for adults and children who were actually paying money to learn English. So it was people who wanted to learn and it was fabulous. I eventually got promoted to head teacher. And I had students on the side on the on my days off.
Chrissy
So this was outside the JET Program. You did the JET program and now you’re private, you’re finding jobs on your own.
Sharon
Yeah. And it was so easy. And you get paid well, just sometimes just to sit and share recipes in English. And hubby had a pretty good job. And we had a wall chart, and every $5,000 that we saved, we’d color in a little line on the wall chart, you know, until we reach a certain number. Because every time we think, Okay, this is our goal, but then we’d meet that goal, then we’d have to make a new wall chart. And then we do that when we do so we kept going. And I was saving all my salary. Because it’s amazing how much you save. Actually, when you’re renting, we were renting. You’re there temporarily. You’re not going to buy fancy furniture. You’re not going to paint. We had no pets. We had one car, I would take public transport. When I think about how cheaply you can live. I mean, it’s cheaper. How we were living in Japan, is much cheaper than how we’re living in Canada. Unfortunately, because Canada’s quite expensive and Japan is supposed to be expensive, but actually, I don’t think it is.
Chrissy
I guess you’re not living in Tokyo because I’ve heard now nowadays rental rates in Tokyo are very high. It’s very hard, hard to find an affordable apartment there. So I guess you’re living outside of the big big city.
Sharon
Oh, yeah, I was up north and my first apartment, which was three meters by three meters. Think about that, though, three meters by three meters. I was paying about $300 a month. But But I heard from other teachers at my school that that was actually a low income apartment.
Chrissy
Okay…
Sharon
That they have put me in. And they didn’t know why I was in there. But I stayed there. I think I was there a year. And then Luckily, I met hubby. And he could find me a new place because I just I couldn’t. And even though it was $300, I’m sorry, I couldn’t.
Chrissy
Yes, that’s really small. Now, how old were the two of you at this point when he started at carpentry school and you started this new private teaching job? Were you in like, early 20s, would you say?
Sharon
No, because when I went to Japan to Japan, I was actually 22. Okay, so maybe 26. 25, 26 or 27.
Money Mechanic
So you’re doing an awesome job, at that age, putting that much money away. And one of the things is living overseas like that gives you that opportunity. If you can keep your living costs down, that you’re socking away that salary that was fantastic.
Sharon
Well, every month, I go to the bank machine and shoving all this pile of bills into the machine because we get paid in cash. Hubby would get paid in cash. I get paid in cash. And then I had my side job that I get paid in cash. So sometimes we come home and we’d have like three envelopes full of money. And I remember one night, we just sat on the floor, we took out all the money and threw it into the air fluttered down.
Money Mechanic
Make it rain! Make it rain!
Sharon
It was just like, oh my god, this is wonderful. So I was sending money home. And like I said, at one point, I became a non-resident because I had cut ties in Canada. But I was still sending money home. I’m not sure what I was doing with it at this time. I did find statements the other day. And I think my financial advisor had me in treasury bills. Like GICs, or I don’t even remember now. But so I was sending home all this money and my mother was was kind of at the other end, checking my bank book. There was bank books back then. And, and she got my statements in the mail. And I guess one month, the markets had dropped and my mother called me in a panic, screaming, you’re going to go bankrupt, you’re going to go bankrupt, because I guess the number had dropped from the previous quarter, as she had never invested money before. She never had invested in any shape or form. She had a bank account her whole life and she thought I was gonna go bankrupt. So that’s why I don’t take advice from her. Right? And I said, Don’t worry, everything’s fine. And yeah, we stayed in Japan. I stayed in Japan a total of eight years. And at that point, we’re early 30s. And I figured at some point we have to return to, if we’re going to go back to Canada, we better do it sooner than later because I didn’t have a lot of Canadian work experience. My husband didn’t have, well, he had more experience in Japan, but I didn’t really know what was he going to do in Canada?
Money Mechanic
He’s going to be a lumberjack!
Sharon
Yes!
Money Mechanic
Well, let’s I’m excited to hear about the return to Canada part of your story. Chrissy, let’s take a quick break and hear a word from our sponsor, and then we’ll hear the rest of Sharon’s story about back to Canada.
Chrissy
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Chrissy
Okay, we’re back. And we are still talking to Sharon about her journey to Japan, and now, her journey back to Canada. So before we talk about the Canadian years, I want to know why did you decide to go back to Canada? Things sound like they’re going well in Japan, you’re earning good money, you’re happy with your jobs? What What was the motivation to come back to Canada other than your husband wanting to become a lumberjack?
Sharon
I think that life in Japan is fabulous for a foreigner we’re giving, we’re given a lot of leeway. You know, we’re foreign. So they excuse a lot of things. Okay, we’re not we don’t stay at work at night. They forgive that because we’re foreign. We don’t know better. But Japanese people do not have an easy life. My husband would work, I think six days a week. One night, he called me 11 o’clock one night after working all day. He called me from the toilet cubicle. And he was whispering into the phone. He said I can’t stand this anymore. I had to hide in the bathroom because we’re not allowed to leave. Because the senpai, the senior boss, did not finish his job.
Chrissy
I’ve heard this.
Sharon
So everyone had to stay.
Chrissy
Even if you have no work to do you have to hang around to show your face. That’s all.
Sharon
Yes. And you have to, it’s better if you pretend you’re doing something. You don’t look idle, you have to pretend I mean, I remember when I was at school, the teacher was at her desk with her head down at the pen in her hand. I said, Well, she’s working so hard. And she was snoring. And it is just funny. And so for Japanese people like that, we didn’t travel. Like I was just saying to hubby today. I said, you know, we lived in Japan eight years. And we only went to Hong Kong once. And back to Canada once. Because Japanese people can’t take holidays. They work six days a week, right?
Chrissy
We hosted Japanese students, and they told us how difficult it is to take holidays, you get maybe two three days off a year.
Sharon
Yeah.
Chrissy
Or you might get two weeks off altogether. But you can never take them all at once.
Sharon
No.
Chrissy
You can only take a few days at a time.
Sharon
So companies say oh yeah, we give our employees holidays. But either they can’t be used, or employees… it’s not the individual. The individual is is not important to the betterment of the group. So if you take a holiday, you are showing you are selfish and you don’t care about the group. So hubby could not stand that anymore. I didn’t I mean, I was fine. But for him, I said no. He he had also studied in Los Angeles when he was a university student. So he had lived in the United States for a few years. So he knew what North American life could be. So we had decided to come back to Canada.
Money Mechanic
Yeah, that makes sense. Now with all this money you were making in Japan before you came back to Canada. Did you have a he said you had investments in Canada before sound like you’re being pretty frugal in Japan had a good plan there. What did you do with money? How did you learn about your personal finance journey? Because from what you just described about working there, it sounds like you guys, if you’d known about the FIRE journey back then you would have started then and there. Right? But you didn’t but you learned about personal finance. So just tell us a little bit about that and the transition back to Canada?
Sharon
Well, because I was making a lot of money and investing and I decided I better learn something about what I was doing. So I just ordered I guess I ordered from Amazon United States and they shipped all the books to me and I had a book bookshelf full of personal finance books. Unfortunately, a lot of them were American. But one of the books I read was by a lady in British Columbia. And I think you guys are from British Columbia.
Money Mechanic
Yeah, we are. Yep.
Sharon
Diane Nahirny? Oh, she wrote a book Get Rich Retire Early or something. She had retired at the age of 36. Because she had a rental property. So I, she had like one rental property. It was, and I read this book. And I said, Oh, my God, we should do this. She retired a 36. And then later, we realized, okay, we don’t want to do the rental property route. So therefore, we can’t retire early. Because no one was talking about it. We’re just talking about the normal you work until you’re 65. And that’s it. So I said, Unless you have a rental property, you can do this. So okay, we’re out of luck. So let’s just carry on. Yeah.
Money Mechanic
So how did it look when you got back to Canada, after learning all about this personal finance and getting more involved and understanding more about it?
Sharon
Well, the funny thing is, I shipped back all those personal finance books, I spent a fortune for shipping. And then we had been to Canada the year before looking at we were at a family reunion. And we looked at houses in Nova Scotia. And then two years later, once we finished in Japan, after hubby got his visa, we moved back to Nova Scotia, and the house prices had gone up so much. That was like we couldn’t catch up because we were we were staying in Japan longer, so we could buy a house. But then the longer we stayed, the house prices would increase in Canada, so we couldn’t catch up, you know what I mean? So um, we didn’t want any debt, we didn’t want to rent. So we actually stayed in the university dormitory in Halifax for a month. And then we stayed for another month with my aunt. And then she basically kicked us out.
Money Mechanic
But you got to say to her, See, I told you I’d stay there for longer than…
Sharon
And we ended up we wanted to buy a house with cash. And we did.
Money Mechanic
Good for you.
Sharon
But unfortunately, the house prices had gone up so much that the house that we could buy was not really it was in a subdivision, cookie cutter subdivision with houses about three feet apart. In Atlantic Canada. This is not, it’s not Toronto, we usually have more space here, you know what I mean? And it was a neighborhood with tons of children, and we weren’t children, people. So we bought two cars and the house, we lasted eight months and sold and bought another house.
Chrissy
Wow.
Sharon
And then I realized we shouldn’t have all our money sitting in the house. So we borrowed from the house, we leveraged our equity. And we invested it. And I guess I should mention that while I was in Japan also, I studied for my I studied investment courses from the Institute of Canadian Bankers, so that when I came home, I’d actually have some marketable skills or knowledge. So I got a job with a investment company, not as a consultant, of course, just as an assistant to a financial consultant, because I was really interested in the industry. And that’s the only thing I thought I wanted to do was working in the investment field.
Money Mechanic
So how did that help you with your investing journey? When you said you’re able to you chose to leverage your house, which is a big deal for a lot of people even even in the FI community where they’re comfortable with their finances and investing? It’s still a big question. Do you think your education learning about the investment funds and then working for broker gave you the confidence to be able to do that?
Sharon
Well, I worked for 16 years with an investment company. I started off investing in mutual funds. It was only when I did my own research that I discovered stocks and ETFs. A few years ago, I learned a lot I learned more about investor behavior. My job, we had a lot of clients who were pretty sure they were aggressive investors when the market was going up. And no matter how many times you tell them and you give them the ‘know your client’ quizzes to see what their risk tolerance is. They were sure they were aggressive. Because the markets have been going up. The minute the markets dropped, they would be the first to call and say sell everything to cash. Right. So I learned a lot about I learned more about investment behavior or investor behavior. The focus with most investment firms at the time, was on mutual funds. I myself was invested in them and I didn’t even at that time I said oh, the MER was over 2.5 I think it was 2.7. And at the time, I said, Oh, 2.7 that sounds okay.
Money Mechanic
It was it was normal. But for that back then, yeah, it was normal.
Sharon
2.7. Yeah. So we had some clients who had been clients for 20 years. And every now and then we’ll call up this, I got my statement, I don’t think I’ve made any money for 20 years. And then I found that in the investment business, a lot of it is trying to convince people not to transfer out their money. And I think the investment advisors I worked for were all great people who did their best to help clients with, you know, insurance planning, tax planning, estate planning, they would offer the best investments they could, but because you had to offer what the company was selling, it was 2.7 MER funds.
Money Mechanic
Right. So it’s hard to have a fiduciary duty when you’re handcuffed by what you have to sell.
Sharon
Yeah. And and I never, never met a sneaky financial advisor, that Yeah, all of them worked hard. They had, they gave out their cell phone number to clients who would call them on the weekend. But it just got to me after 16 years, and I had already started investing in stocks, it just really brought me down, especially last year when COVID hit. And clients were the first day of the lockdown here in Nova Scotia, we had clients calling up saying they want to defer their mortgage payments, like literally day one. People were not prepared. I don’t have an emergency fund. So I shouldn’t speak. But I mean, we didn’t have a mortgage. So if anything happened, we were, you know, we didn’t have any huge bills. But I just, it got very depressing. And I felt that people really need to educate themselves on money. You know, we had people who we had to do consolidation loans for because they never ever learned how to use a credit card. Young people and I don’t know, it just got very depressing. And I thought to myself, I need to work another two years before I’m financially free, and see if I can hold on another two years. But then last year, we started working from home, everything went digital, there was so much compliance in the investment industry now. You need to have your T’s crossed, your I’s dotted, you have to have everything in writing that the client understands every point. And it just became overwhelming the amount of and then clients come back and say I didn’t understand it. And then they’ll file a complaint. So anyway, I my work was affected. And I ended up losing my job in October. But as I was sitting there with my boss, and I could see she was talking to me and I could see where the conversation was going. My mind. It was like slow motion in my mind. I looked up into the into my mind. And I said, Oh, we have this much money in investments. I guess that’s what they call FU Money. And when she said today’s your last day, in my mind, I said Thank God.
Money Mechanic
Yay!
Sharon
Because I would have never quit. Yeah, because it was a decent-paying job. When I was in the office. I was enjoying it somewhat, or working from home. And all the compliance and the clients the same clients complaining and the and not willing to do anything to help themselves. right or not knowledgeable enough to. I just was done. Yeah, I was done. So here I am.
Chrissy
I love that. You’ve said you’ve told your story in COVID. But a couple of our other guests have also mentioned this that actually we’ve had three guests now that have changed their course in the pandemic and it’s not what you expect. A lot of these people they had a good position or they lost their positions. But whatever the case, they’re happy and they’re okay because of the path they’ve been on.
Sharon
Why do you think for example, in Nova Scotia now, the house price has increased 30% in the last year, and people from Ontario are moving here. Please don’t move here Ontario. Because our dream was to have a hobby farm. We were going to sell our house we have a house. That’s I’d say we’re not we’re frugal but we we do spend money on things that we enjoy or we we value we’re living on the water in this market now with Ontario folks coming here. We could have sold our house for a good penny and my hubby even suggested we do that. But then all the rural properties that were selling for $100,000 two years ago, some of them are going for four times the price, or three times I shouldn’t. And now we were that was our retirement, one of our retirement plans was to sell this house, which we could get, just say $400,000, for which we could, and we were going to move rural, and maybe get a house for 200. But now they’re selling for more.
Money Mechanic
It’s interesting when you mentioned that I’ve, we’ve seen that over here on this side of the country as well. Lots of us have geo-arbitrage plans in the FI journey. And it’s interesting when you’re kind of going well, my geo-arbitrage isn’t that much of an arbitrage anymore, because prices have been driven up because people are trying to exit the cities where, you know, 10 years before we saw everybody fleeing to the big cities. So you know, these trends happen. They come and go, and who knows what the future will bring?
Sharon
Why do you think COVID triggered that though, it seems that since COVID happened, everyone wants a hobby farm, everyone wants to move to somewhere else in Canada, to the East Coast.
Chrissy
I think it’s the remote working. I know you didn’t enjoy it. But I think for a lot of people, it works for the lifestyle. And yeah, I know what my husband’s Company A lot of people are like maybe I can move to Kelowna or something and work from there, where that wasn’t a possibility before. You had to be in the city within driving distance to the company. Yeah. But now it untethers people, and it gives them opportunities, like you like you wanted to live out the life that they wanted, which is, you know, be a hobby farm.
Sharon
Yeah, just letting Upper Canadians know that Nova Scotia has really bad internet in communities. A lot of places are on dial-up. So if you’re hoping to work remotely, please ask the real estate agent. If there’s dial-up internet first, or you could be in big trouble.
Chrissy
Well, you might not even get dial-up. Wow.
Money Mechanic
Too funny, too funny. Well, it sounds like you’ve got your sort of FI plan all sorted out. And it was an interesting story to hear that coming from a challenging childhood, to working overseas, and capitalizing on that experience and that income, that you could parlay that back into careers for both of you in Canada. I like I like the story, because a lot of us and I’ve said this in the past, because I’ve been an expat as well, that there’s opportunity to work overseas, and kind of turbocharged your FI journey, you get it kicked off, because you built a really great foundation by doing something like that. Do you see that as one of the important parts of your journey so far is laying that foundation work once by being overseas?
Sharon
Oh, definitely. Because when we moved into our second house, it was in a very fancy neighborhood. But we bought the smallest house on the street, our neighbor, we became friendly with our neighbor who was a teacher or elementary school principal. And she came to our house one time and she said, You’re so lucky to have two incomes. She was a single woman. And I said, Well, I’m making $12 an hour. And hubby is making I think $25,000 a year. And her mouth just dropped. And she was I think at the time making $80,000 or something. But she was sure because we were living there. And it’s a cute house in a nice neighborhood that we must be when you have two people, you have double the double the cost, right? We had two cars. But I do believe that if we had started out, just living in Canada making that money, we’d never get out of the hole. There’s no way to establish yourself if you’re making twenty-something-thousand dollars a year. Doesn’t matter how frugal you are. You can batch cook all day long, and it’s not gonna get you to FI so I thank God every not every day, but a few times a week at supper over wine, I say Hubby, thank you to your country. We did not squander that chance. And we saved for five years, I saved my income. And it was just I just wish that I had invested it better at the time, but I don’t know I wasn’t sure since I was a non-resident. Now I think like you Money Mechanic. I’m doing the hybrid way, you know, stocks and ETFs. I started with dividend stocks. But then I realized I really should diversify into the US but I didn’t want to buy individual funds. So I started ETF investing for the US. I’m still not sure I’m still researching. There’s two two ways of thinking about it is dividend growth the way to go or is ETF investing the way to go?
Money Mechanic
Well, that’s a whole other podcast if we get into dividend growth, investing or total market returns, and Chrissy will have a position on that too. So we won’t get too deep into that.
Sharon
No, no. So I just wish that if 15 years ago or maybe 20 years ago, if I had known more, I would have been further ahead, but you know,
Money Mechanic
Yeah, and that’s the motivation for people listening to this show is like we always say is just get started, right, you can make changes along the way.
Chrissy
So one point, I would like our audience to really hear from you, because, like we said, Your story is not a typical FI story. You mentioned before we started recording how much your maximum annual salary has has been in your life. I’d like you to share that with our audience so that they know, you don’t have to be a highly paid tech person or a doctor to achieve FI.
Sharon
Yes, sometimes when I’m listening to the podcasts, I feel a lot of the people who are interviewed are making over $100,000 a year sometimes a couple is making $200,000. My husband came here and the first job he got was sanding furniture at an antique store. Actually, he was making $8 an hour then, which I guess was the minimum wage. I was unemployed, actually, he got a job quicker than me. And then actually, he became a Red Seal carpenter. He just quickly he’s he had a full time job. They hired him. He learned carpentry on the job. He studied with the community college online and got his Red Seal carpentry journeyman certificate while studying online while working full time. And he got a grant at the end. So actually, he was paid to get his Red Seal carpentry. So technically, he didn’t have to, he just worked and studied at the same time. And I was making, I started off making twenty-something-thousand as an assistant to a financial planner, which is basically a office worker, dealing with clients though, and the most I ever made was $38,000. He’s doing better than me. Now, of course, he’s making about 60. But if you have the foundation, if you have a chance, if any people out there have kids who are University age, and they have the opportunity to go, I’d say to Japan to teach English or Korea, I would do it because you come home with money and you can start your life in a positive. Like, imagine if you’re making $8 an hour you need to get an apartment, get a car, furnish your apartment, you’ll never get ahead. No offense. But the foundation is so important. And that And right now, I should say that I’ve not been working since October. I’m going to have to start looking for a job soon. But you know, hubby does some side hustles he actually played a Japanese hotel clerk on a Canadian TV show. Do you know the TV show Mr. D?
Money Mechanic
I’ve I’ve heard it on CBC.
Sharon
He was a teacher. And they were actually looking for a Japanese person. And it had to be Japanese, not Chinese or Korean. And yeah, and he he was a Japanese capsule hotel front desk clerk, and he made $1,000!
Money Mechanic
Good for him. I hope he got to wear plaid.
Sharon
So Well, there’s so many when when you have the foundation, you know, even though we weren’t making tons of money, and I spent a lot of money on on pets and other things. You know, here I am. I’m not working. But we’re doing okay. And when I was laid off, I didn’t stress about it, it was actually a relief. And now I’m just my biggest problem is what am I going to do next? Like, what would I enjoy doing?
Money Mechanic
So that’s the that’s the switch from the scarcity mindset, from your youth to the abundance mindset because you built the foundation. And you are where you are now. That’s amazing.
Sharon
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.
Chrissy
Yeah. So you mentioned also to us that you would love for your parents to see where you’re at now. And I think that’s a lovely way to end the story of how you’ve come so far from where you came from. And your parents would be proud of you. They’d be amazed that you went against everything that they stood for and everything that… you were told so many negative things in your childhood, and yet you overcame all that and look at you now.
Sharon
Yeah, unfortunately, my father passed away about 10 years ago, and I had to rush back home for that. And then when I went back, actually, I realized my mother was suffering from dementia, but she had hidden it quite well over the phone. So um, I guess the last 10 years. My mother passed away last year actually but so they didn’t really get see the results. But they didn’t know I was back in Canada with hubby. And we were we were fine and not asking for money. Because I think they always expected me to be asking for money. My father offered me money for new windows. I said No, I’m fine. I really don’t need money. But they just they just didn’t think I’d ever be independent. So I I think they would be proud. Definitely. Yeah.
Chrissy
So you’re eventually you’re you’ll reach FI what what is the plan? Will you be earlier than retirement age? Or will you be hitting serve a more traditional retirement?
Sharon
It depends what kind of job I can find. Now, I don’t know if I should look for something part time that I enjoy that pays very little, or if I should try to find a job that I might not enjoy, but that would pay more. That’s my issue. And definitely within five years, depending on the stock market. Yeah, if we could include the equity in our house, we’d be there already. But not including the equity in our house. I’d say three to five years.
Money Mechanic
Fantastic.
Sharon
Yeah.
Chrissy
Very good.
Sharon
Right. And, you know, hubby, he’s just planning on doing woodworking and trying to sell the things he makes. And I have plans as well. So we would, we’re believers in FI and not FIRE.
Money Mechanic
Yes. I think when you have skill sets that you’ve built up in over a lifetime, that it just kind of comes naturally to do things like that. Anyway, I I’m handy. I like doing woodwork type stuff. I don’t think anybody’s gonna pay me for it yet. But eventually, you know, eventually it might end and you can just earn a little bit of money that helps support that the lifestyle that you have, and not rely wholly on drawing down your investment portfolio. So yeah, sounds like you’ve got a plan in place. And you’ve got a beautiful place by the lake. So maybe you just hold off on the Hobby Farm.
Sharon
No, we’re doing quite well. And we’re very lucky and and I just wish I had found the FIRE or the FI movement earlier, but Oh, well. I think we all do. Yeah. Thank you. And I really enjoy your podcasts. Thanks so much for your podcast.
Money Mechanic
Thank you. Thank you very much. It’s been a pleasure having you on the show because this is all part of it is sharing these stories from around Canada. Chrissy I was fascinated I, you know, resonated with some parts of this in my own life. And it’s never too late for people that are listened to this. And also, as Sharon said, it’s never too young to get started. So thanks again for being with us.
Sharon
Thank you.
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Episode links
- Stop Working…Start Living: How I Retired at 36 (but never made more than $26,000 a year) by Diane Nahirny
- Mr. D TV show
- JET program
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Really enjoyed this episode and hearing from Sharon. Love the East Coast sense of humour and story-telling 🙂
Hi Kathleen—thank you for listening and for taking the time to comment. I really enjoyed our chat with Sharon, and am happy to hear others enjoyed it too. ❤️
This episode was a refreshing change, I enjoyed it.
Hi Christie—thanks for listening and commenting. Sharon’s interview is a departure from typical FI stories, which is exactly why we wanted to bring her on! 🙂