047: FI-lexibility | Diania Merriam of EconoMe

Diania discovered FIRE when she was living in NYC and $30,000 in debt “for no reason”. After a refreshing punch in the face from Mr. Money Mustache, she started her FIRE journey, turned her finances around and started the EconoMe Conference.

In the interview, we discuss ‘FI-lexbility’ and how it can make the long journey to FIRE more sustainable and meaningful. We also dive into one of Chrissy’s favourite topics—FIRE misconceptions. We hope you enjoy the episode… it’s a fun one!

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Money Mechanic
Hello, listeners. Welcome to Explore FI Canada, where we sit at the roundtable with Canadians, and share their thoughts, ideas and personal journeys to financial independence.

Chrissy
Thanks to Matt McKeever for sponsoring Explore FI Canada. Matt is a Canadian investor, CPA, entrepreneur, and real estate expert who achieved FIRE at age 31. Do us a favour and check out his YouTube channel by searching Matt McKeever or using the link in our show notes.

Money Mechanic
Good day, nice to be back on the air Explore FI Canada. Chrissy, how are you?

Chrissy
I’m good. How are you?

Money Mechanic
I’m really good today. Really good. We have another special guest with us. We’ve been doing a lot of guest interviews. When are we going to just sit down and chat amongst ourselves, Chrissy?

Chrissy
I know we haven’t done that ever, right?

Money Mechanic
There’s just so many interesting people out there to talk to. And today we’ve even broadened our horizons into the United States, which is unusual for the Canadian FI podcast. But Welcome to the show, Dian-ah, with the silent ‘i’. I just had to bring it up before you did, because I’ve heard some of your other talks before, and you’re like, it’s a silent ‘i’ and you can ask my mother why I have no idea what she… So welcome to the show.

Diania
Thanks so much for having me. I know, you’re stealing my thunder here and my main joke.

Money Mechanic
Well, I love that you used to do stand up comedy too. So like we’re in for a treat today.

Diania
Oh, well, I’m out of practice. But there… okay, so I’ll tell you a joke about my name that I don’t think that I’ve told anyone else before. Okay, because I just I mean, this is obviously a conversation that I have every day. So I was considering changing the pronunciation to di-ah-NEE-ya because I thought that sounded like super exotic, like some kind of like Greek goddess, right–di-ah-NEE-ya–until I realized that it sounds way too much like diarrhea. Not what I’m going for!

Chrissy
No!

Diania
Diana, it is.

Money Mechanic
Diana, it is. Well, welcome to the show. And you are famous for a few reasons. And that’s why we have here today.

Diania
Whoo. Famous. That’s a strong word.

Money Mechanic
Yeah, of course. Yeah, you created and ran the EconoMe Conference last year, you are doing webinars, one of which we’ll touch on today about FI-lexibility. And you’ve also got another webinar about the misconceptions of FIRE. So we’re gonna dive into that a little bit. And I think what we all really like talking about and a good discussion in this community right now is kind of all the psychologies that go around FI and FIRE itself. And how we kind of approach that and I think it’s, that… bridges the border between us in Canada and the US because the psychology is the same even though the bank accounts aren’t. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about yourself before we dive right in.

Diania
Sure. So I’d say my money start my money stories started. I don’t know, five years ago, when I got a refreshing punch in the face from Mr. Money Mustache. And at the time, I was living in New York City, I was 30 grand in debt for like no reason. I mean, it’s not like, I had a fine job, I was climbing the ladder, I was very career-oriented. I went to college on a full academic scholarship and still took out student loans like an idiot. So you know that I had like 15 grand in credit card debt. So I had 30 grand in debt total, for just purely from being mindless about my consumption, I just was simply was not paying attention. And so when I discovered Mr. Money Mustache and just realized how stupid I was being with my money, I ended up getting out of that 30 grand of debt in 11 months. And from there, I started saving about 60% of my income. And it just completely changed my life. And I got very passionate about the FIRE movement, just because I could see the effect that it had on me and the options that it opened up. So I was able to take a sabbatical from work, I took two months off unpaid, and I went to Spain and I walked the Camino, which is a 500 mile trek across Spain, it was completely life-changing experience. I ended up asking my employer before we were all working from home and remote work is like now the norm. But three years ago, you know, I asked if I could move to Cincinnati from New York City and work remotely and I was able to do that and I was able to buy a house and I adopted a dog and I started a business and you know now I’ve got the EconoMe Conference and I’ve got this podcast I’m hosting now, Optimal Finance Daily. And it’s just like, man, my life is so incredibly different and feels just so full of possibility. All because I got out of debt and started saving money like I just would have never expected that.

Chrissy
Wow. And so was it Mr. Money Mustache that started you on paying down your debt? It wasn’t Dave Ramsey or anything else.

Diania
No, it was Mr. Money Mustache. I was a part of this like mastermind group in New York City. we called ourselves the Reputable Women’s Development Club. And one of the women in our group, she worked for Google. And I guess like, you know, Mr. Money Mustache is really popular among software engineers. And so she came across it. And she sent it to me. And I think the article she may have sent was there’s one titled, your debt’s…

Money Mechanic
Your debt’s on fire or something.

Diania
Yeah, Your Debt is an Emergency. Yeah, you know all about your…

Money Mechanic
Treat it like your house is on fire or your hair’s on fire.

Diania
Yeah, I’m pretty sure that’s the article that I found. And I was just like, Whoa, I’ve never heard anyone talk about money like that. And I just devoured that entire blog with a spoon. I read like every single article, and it just, it was a complete 180. And I went from, you know, going out to dinner every night and being completely wasteful about money to cooking every single meal, splitting my internet with my neighbors, I didn’t buy any clothing, I would host these like clothing exchanges, and get free clothing from my friends and have elaborate dinner parties. And it was just this period of incredible resourcefulness and creativity that I didn’t even know I had. It was so satisfying in its own right. And it’s interesting to me, like when people talk about getting out of debt and saving money, they talk about the struggle of it. And I do think it is a struggle for many people. But this mindset shift is what enabled it to not be a struggle for me that actually be a really joyous time. And so I hope to be able to kind of share that with people. And I can’t possibly be the only one that thinks this stuff is fun.

Chrissy
No, no, I was the same. But you can take it too far, obviously. But I think what makes the difference, like what made the difference in your journey, and in mine, was you had a strong ‘why’. And you had this purpose that you’re going towards. It wasn’t giving up stuff, just because you knew you were trading that for something better that was more valuable to you, which was your time freedom and money freedom.

Diania
Absolutely.

Money Mechanic
So we can all probably agree and anybody else that’s on the path that we we really do jump into the deep end. And it’s probably a good way to learn to swim for, to use that kind of analogy, right? But once we kind of get all that stuff figured out, we’ve made that transition, the journey to FI is a long one, right? It’s not an overnight thing, we make a ton of changes at the beginning. And we’ve got things sorted out. But then we realize that we’re in it for the long haul. Now, I think that’s where, you know, the psychology really starts to play into it. And the concept that you came up with there, FI-lexibility, kind of deals with that, from the way I interpreted. Introduce us to that concept.

Diania
Sure. Well, I’m gonna read you the definition from the Merriam Webster Dictionary, which is not from the Merriam Webster Dictionary, I took liberties, because my last name is Merriam so. So what the hell is FI-lexibility? Right, I define it as a mindset of elasticity, amid the obstacles and opportunities that present themselves on the path to financial independence. I would also define it as a concept I made up to make myself feel better about not being financially independent. I’m actually seven years away. So I think this concept is about recognizing that pursuing financial independence is just about so much more than actually reaching financial independence. In so, if like, reaching FI is about opening up options. I think FI-lexibility is about seeing the options you have now while you’re on the way to even more options, you know, and, and to me what I realized, like when I was first getting out of debt, and I was creating, you know, saving my emergency fund and stockpiling my investments and working towards FIRE, like I really looked at it as this kind of safety net, you know, the safety net of money that I could handle whatever bad things life throws at me, but life also throws good things. And and I I now refer to my emergency fund is my emergency and opportunity fund. Because, you know, I don’t think it’s just about guarding against the bad things. I think it’s also about seizing opportunities. So like, for example, when I bought this house, I was kind of house shopping, but I thought that I was going to buy like an investment property, I thought maybe I’d buy a duplex and I’d live in one side and like the other side would cover the whole mortgage. That’s how I thought it was gonna go. And then I ended up finding this single family home. And it was so cheap, and it was just so perfect for me. And I didn’t really have the intent. It wasn’t a planned out thing. I had the downpayment and I just did it because because the opportunity presented itself, right. Same thing with like starting the EconoMe Conference that was supposed to be a retirement project. That was something that I wanted to do. Like when I asked myself, if I didn’t have to work for money, what would I want to do with my time? I’d want to create like, a freaking huge party about money. That’s what I want to do. And and then I just got so excited about it. I couldn’t wait so I didn’t know And I’m actually really grateful that I created it while I still have a full-time income, because having that income allowed me to take so many risks that I would probably wouldn’t have taken if I was just living off my investment portfolio. I ended up taking a big loss my first year, but it’s okay, because I’ve got time to make it up. I’m going to break even I’m hoping this next year. And I think that if I was in a position where I didn’t have income, it’d be like, well, ticket sales aren’t covering my costs, I got to cancel it. And having that flexibility to not have to do that was awesome.

Chrissy
Yeah, you’re right. And there are a lot of similarities between your FI-lexibility and something that we talked about in a previous episode—Slow FI. So we just did discuss, just before the show, what the difference was. So maybe you can get into that a little bit, because there’s a lot of overlap. But there are some distinct differences.

Diania
Yeah, I definitely think that there’s a lot of overlap in the flavor of it. I think one of the distinct differences is FI-lexibility is almost like reserving your right to change your mind, and letting your mindset evolve on your path to FI. So when I think about when I first started on this journey, and I was getting out of 30 grand of debt, and 11 months, I was so aggressive and gung ho. And it was also exciting. And it was just this, like, there’s this video, if you google how to get an (expletive)-eating grin in one easy step. There’s a video of me, on the day I got out of debt, and I look insane, like my eyes are popping out of my head. And I’m just so freaking excited. And, and I mean, I’m just an over-enthusiastic person to be good with. So you know, that’s part of it. But there’s this level of energy and aggressiveness that I had in the beginning, that I don’t think that’s sustainable along my whole path. You know, and I don’t know that I want it to be, I think that, you know, the energy that I had in the beginning and the enjoyment I had in the beginning, my energy is going to need to kind of even out a little bit in order for it to be sustainable. So I don’t burn myself out on this path to FI. And I think when you start to get like out of debt, and you’ve got, you know, you’re past your first 100k, you’re past your second 100k, you know, and you’re kind of just in this accumulation stage where things are all automated, you know, there’s not, there’s not that much more to optimize. I mean, in theory, I’m saving 60% of my income right now, in theory, I could like try to increase my income or try to bring it to 70%. And like, constantly try and optimize. But I almost feel like I’m past that point. And now I’m in this place where it’s like I’ve opened up this space to ask bigger questions. What do I want to do with my time? How much is enough? How do I start feeling the benefits of financial security before I’ve even reached formal financial independence? I think those are the questions that are just a lot more interesting to me now.

Chrissy
Mm hmm. Yeah, we call this stage the doldrums of FI, where you just, you’ve optimized everything. And there’s, there’s not much more you can do, there’s that law of diminishing returns, right, you can put a lot more effort, but you’re not going to get a whole lot back. And I think this is also the point where a lot of us start to blog, or podcast, or start a conference, you know? ‘Cuz we have still have that energy and that drive to do something. But I think then it spreads out to the community where we want to give back and share the message with others. And that’s what you’ve done in a big, big way.

Diania
Thank you. Yeah, it’s um, it’s pretty incredible to me, even getting into this space, not all that long ago, it was like five years ago, and being able to reach out to these people that I really admire that I’ve listened to their podcasts and read their blogs. And, you know, I want to work with them on this project, the EconoMe Conference, and they answer me like, that is so freakin cool, like Mr. Money Mustache, put a tweet out or a Facebook post, like promoting the EconoMe Conference. And it was to me like, that is better than you know. I mean, maybe that’s what it’ll feel like to reach FI I don’t know, like, it was just, like a dream come true. You know, like, my idol, promoted my thing. And then I did a presentation at Camp FI in July, and he was there. And I did this presentation on FI-lexibility. And I talked all about the EconoMe Conference, and he was like, totally into it, and, like really engaged and it’s like, Man, this guy’s like my hero, and he likes my stuff like that is just, there’s something so gratifying about that. And that’s, that has nothing to do with money. Yeah, right. Like that’s just about creating something you want to see in the world. And that that really is kind of what FI has evolved to for me and this idea of flexibility and letting your mindset evolve to me reaching FI and what wealth is even is the ability to create what I want to see in the world without any thought to income, without any thought to like how much profit I’m going to make from it or whatever. It’s just being able to do what you want to do without any consideration for the money side of things.

Money Mechanic
So I am trying, this is my first last year was my first year for coast FI. Because I felt that I’d gotten to that point where it’s like, okay, I can take my foot off the gas pedal, right? push really hard, lots of work, lots of heavy, heavy savings. Get everything, like you said, super optimized, and I’m like, wait, I can’t keep doing this. So it’s like, what, what are my options here, and I think we’ve seen a lot of sort of pivots in the FI community in the FIRE community with this kind of like the offshoots, right with like, we talked a little bit about Slow FI, FI-lexibility’s, a great sort of concept as a whole thing. And coast FI really resonated with me, and I’m very fortunate to have a job that I can I work kind of broken-up shifts, so I was able to break it down into smaller sections and go, my goal was to work 100 days last year, was that going to be sustainable for me to keep all my side time for passion projects and things like that, and just like you mentioned, is that this journey to FI it, it’s, there’s a lot in between that hardcore, that beginning that fast-paced beginning, and so the road to the end. And so in that middle time there, there may be a time when everybody finds that they can kind of step back or make the pivot like you did and start doing a conference because you want to do it. One of the problems that I still have, though, is that I feel that in one way, my career job, which I still do is a bit of a crutch that’s almost holding me back from making a really clean break, and then really embracing the next thing because I still have this mindset of analyzing things from a financial standpoint, because I’m not fully FI, I always kind of go, what’s the return on that? What? How much am I going to get paid for my time, and it’s really hard to get past that I’m really impressed with the way you did the EconoMe Conference last year, it cost you a ton of money. But you’re so passionate about it that it’s okay. It’s the long game. It’s what made you feel good, you created something.

Diania
Well, and I also think that all of these decisions that we make, like yes, there is the numbers side of things, but we’re talking about big life stuff, right? A lot of these decisions are emotional, and a lot of the way that we justify what we do with our time or how we make money or how we spend money. It’s a lot of mental jujitsu, right. So like, for example, I don’t have children, and I probably will never have children, I don’t really have a desire to have children. So in my mind, I’m like, Well, if I were to have a kid, it cost me a hell of a lot more than 40 grand. So even if I lost 40 grand on the EconoMe Conference, and this business model, let’s just say it’s not sustainable, I think it’s going to be sustainable. As long as I get the audience up to full capacity, and I have sponsorship revenue, I’ll be able to continue to sustain it and keep ticket prices low. That’s my goal. But let’s just say I’m wrong, let’s just say there’s a global pandemic, and people can’t gather in large groups, right? I mean,

Money Mechanic
What makes you think that would happen?

Diania
I mean, so then maybe this business isn’t viable. And I’m out 40 grand, but you know, what, I created something that I’m really proud of, and it is worth every penny to me.

Money Mechanic
And the experience. You had the experience. You created the experience, it cost us money, but you can’t replace the experience. I we like everybody in the FIRE the FIRE community, we realize that buying experiences is one of the things we value the most because we recognize that the happiness is very fleeting from the shiny object you buy, but the memories and the experience live forever.

Diania
Totally. Yeah. And I think in you know, the your hesitation on pulling the plug. I don’t think that’s unusual. I feel that way too. Because I it’s funny, like I think about the stages of becoming financially literate. And in the beginning, you know, not knowing anything. And all I wanted to do was get out of debt. And I even while I was in the process of getting out of debt, I had this looming like, well, then after this, I got to really learn how to invest. And that’s super intimidating to me, right. But I’m not going to think about that right now. I’m going to worry about that bridge when I when I come to it. And I’m just going to focus on getting out of debt. And now I’m in the investing stage in the accumulation phase, and I’m fine, you know, like it wasn’t as bad as I thought it was going to be. But I took steps to kind of prepare myself for that. And I think that we need to take steps to prepare ourselves for when we reach financial independence. And we’re making a shift from away from traditional work and what we know, I think the scary thing about it and a reason to be I guess FI-lexible, as I say, is because what if we don’t know what we want? People who really are sure, like I know I want to reach FI because I want to stay home with my kids or I want to travel the world or I want to start a business or I want to do X, Y or Z like there are people out there that are really sure about their why. I think my why constantly changes and I think I test my why a lot and realize that I’m wrong. So there’s all these things that I thought that I wanted to do? And then I’ll test them in small ways and realize that Oh, wait, I didn’t want to do that thing. So like you talked about, you mentioned, I did stand up comedy for like two years, I did all these open mics all over New York City and Cincinnati, and like, yes, they, I got a lot out of it. I don’t regret it at all, I am funny as hell, obviously, no. But, you know, what I learned from that experience is that I wasn’t really enjoying the people in that scene, you know, like the staying up late and drinking and going to all these open mics. And a lot of people in stand up comedy are very depressed and anxious. You know, it’s so it’s like, this is not how I will, these are not the people I want to be spending a large majority of my time with, you know, and I just felt like, I wasn’t going to be pursuing comedy seriously. But I tried it. And I got to validate that that is not my thing. I don’t want to end up at the end of my life thinking, well, I could have been an amazing singer, I could have been this great, whatever. You know, and, and I never tried or like, you know, if I would have tried, I would have been so good at the X, Y, and Z. So I think it’s really important to like test those assumptions. Because I used to think I want to do stand up comedy, I used to think I wanted to sing, I used to think I wanted to be playing in a band, I play a brass horn, baritone horn. And so I was in a drum and Bugle Corps for a couple years experimenting with that. And ultimately, none of those things were how I want to spend the bulk of my time, but maybe they were right for the moment, and then I moved on from them. But I’m so glad I didn’t invest a ton of time and money into a master’s in music, and then discover that that’s actually not my thing. Like I think there’s an opportunity on our path to FI to experiment in really small ways to kind of decide, you know, what really our thing is, and is that thing that we think we’re going to, that we think we want to do? Does it make us feel how we think it’s going to make us feel, because we have these images and fantasies in our mind, I used to think about myself on stage singing, and how amazing it felt to be on stage singing. And then I joined the School of Rock and I did a four-month program and sang seven songs in front of 100 people. And when the show was over, I was like, that was not my thing. It did not feel how I thought it was gonna feel. You know, but all of these things kind of led to discoveries about myself. And that, to me is the best part I think about FI-lexibility is that I’m using these experiments to learn. And so if you look at these kind of things, they kind of have a common theme, right? There’s, there’s a performance aspect to all of this stuff. And so now I get to host this podcast, and I’m like voice acting, I’m reading blog posts and voice acting. It’s, it’s it’s so fun. It’s like, and I write to these people, and I’ll tell them, it’s like you wrote this amazing song and I got to perform the cover.

Money Mechanic
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Diania
And it’s so satisfying. And and I think constantly experimenting of what is this need to perform has led me to try other things and led me to the EconoMe stage and led me to the podcasting stage. And it’s starting to become clearer through experimentation.

Chrissy
Well, I heard you on another podcast where you were saying that we shouldn’t wait for FI or for retirement to do all these things. And that is the beauty of being on this path that it gives you the financial freedom so that you can explore and experiment and it ends up being a happier life. Because you’re getting to know yourself, you’re putting value out into the world, and you’re trying to find your path in a way that’s valuable to you and possibly valuable to others. And I think that’s so important. And that’s one of the overlaps between Slow FI and FI-lexibility is really, you know, enjoying the path as you’re going and not just waiting to the end to experience at all.

Diania
Definitely. I also think there’s this kind of forgiving nature, to or gentle nature to this mindset of FI-lexibility because there’s this perception in the FIRE community of like, people that are a little dogmatic and gung ho, you know, like, you’ve got to eat rice and beans and get that savings rate up and get there as fast as possible. And like there’s this like aggressiveness and ambitious nature to it, which is great in some senses, but it can be exhausting. And so like I remember this one month, and I calculate my savings rate every month because I just like it. It’s just fun to see. And I do have a goal that I’m shooting for. It’s typically I land around 60% savings rate, and this one month, I was at 45% and I felt so bad about it. Is that not the most ridiculous thing you’ve ever heard.

Money Mechanic
That’s terrible! 45%? Shame on you!

Diania
To feel bad about 45%? I should be celebrating that, you know, but this kind of dogmatic, you know, message, it’s almost like we’re so counterculture and that we push away this idea of like the American dream for us here in the US. But you know, we push away this idea of social norms and nine to five till you’re 65. And we think we’re being so you know, against the grain, but then we’re also creating this, like, new dogma, it feels like that maybe isn’t always helpful when we’re being so strict with it.

Money Mechanic
I think that’s one of the important aspects that I really, you know, we try and focus on this show is that, because we’re trying to do it across Canada, we want to hear those different stories, we want to give people permission that this is a personal journey, that you may start off, and you see, like you said, there’s a lot of dogma surrounding some of the approaches to this. But the truth is that you have permission to take this path and make it how you want it to be what it looks like, what it should look like for you, wherever you live in Canada or in the States, whether you’re low income, high income, all these kind of things. It’s just different. It changes the path, right?

Diania
Totally, yeah.

Money Mechanic
Your psychology that we’re talking about is that it is choose your path that works for you.

Diania
And the reality is, who is writing the rules of FI? Nobody?

Money Mechanic
Yeah, exactly.

Diania
There’s no authority on this. This is not a religion,

Money Mechanic
Whoa, whoa, whoa. We are the authority in Canada.

Diania
I mean, people joke that it’s like a cult or something, because because people are so enthusiastic about it. But I don’t really feel like there’s any real rules to FI, there is a general framework of increase your income, decrease your expenses and invest the gap. But the way that you actually execute on that you could do it in so many different ways. Like the options are endless on how you design what that ends up looking like for you. So yeah, I think whenever you listen to any kind of content about FIRE, it’s just really important to take it with a grain of salt. And when I listen to things, I hear people saying, This is what I did. And this is what works for me. I don’t hear them saying I did it. So you should do it this way, too. I don’t hear that.

Chrissy
Yeah. And I think that’s what a lot of the naysayers like to criticize. They think that we’re hardcore. And we, we think there’s only one way to do it. And you have to be deprivational and you have to be in misery. That’s not it at all. You’re right. It’s each of us sharing our own stories. And this is just an idea. You might want to try it this way.

Diania
Totally.

Chrissy
Hey, Money Mechanic, you use Passiv, right? How do you like it?

Money Mechanic
It’s great. It’s like my own personalized robo advisor. I set it up one time, then Passiv helps keep my portfolio balanced by securely connecting to Questrade.

Chrissy
Wow, sounds like Passiv saves you a lot of time.

Money Mechanic
Yeah, no more spreadsheets! And Passiv even has one-click purchasing, which makes life so much easier.

Chrissy
That sounds amazing. I also heard that Passiv added a new goal feature to help DIY investors reach their investment targets.

Money Mechanic
That’s right. The goal feature is built right in and helps you stay on track with your investments. Chrissy, did you know that Passiv is free for Questrade clients?

Chrissy
Free is good, especially when it normally costs $99! How can our listeners get in on this offer?

Money Mechanic
Just go to Passiv.com/EFIC.

So this is we’ve already sort of made the pivot in the show here into the discussion we’re gonna have about the FIRE misconceptions. You know, hopefully we’ve got new listeners that are, you know, just beginning their journey, and they’re getting that refreshing face punch. But we all know it’s a little overwhelming. So some of these misconceptions and assumptions and the criticisms of FIRE, that we’ve all been doing this for a little while now. So we’ve probably heard a lot of them. And I don’t get super defensive, because I believe that the path is different for everyone, like we just agreed with. But what are some of the things that you hear Diana, that are obvious sort of misconceptions, or you can’t do that? That’s never gonna work? Or, you know, what do you hear?

Diania
Sure. I hear a lot of people, you know, especially older people that I’ll talk to you about the FIRE movement. You know, they’ll say things like, this is only for young people who don’t want to work. I find that pretty interesting. Especially because for someone to pursue FIRE. I think you you have to be a bit ambitious of a person, right? And I don’t think anyone that pursues FIRE is doing it because they just want to sit around and do nothing. I think that they want to open up more options in their life and they’re not lazy people. I don’t think lazy people pursue FIRE and snow. So I don’t think it’s about not wanting to work. I think it’s it’s about wanting to have control over the way that you work. And I definitely don’t think it’s only for young people. One of the things that really shocked me, because I think that I marketed more to people in my age, demographic and even even younger because I held the EconoMe Conference at the University of Cincinnati 20% of my audience was over 50. And what that said to me is that these are people that maybe they got a late start, or you know, they didn’t realize until their their 40s that oh man, like, I’m not prepared for retirement. And so the aggressiveness of FIRE is actually very much suited for that age for them to retire at traditional retirement age, I met a wonderful couple that have a blog called started at 50. And I met them at Camp FI, and they talked about how they were bankrupt at 50 years old. And they still retired at 60, based on what they learned from the FIRE movement. So I think the message there is that it’s never too late. And that I wouldn’t dismiss this as a bunch of, you know, hippie, young people trying not to work. I really think that financial literacy is for everyone, no matter what age. Another thing that I hear a lot, is, it’s not possible when you have kids. So a lot of people will dismiss me when I talk about my 60% savings rate, because they’re like, Oh, well, you don’t have kids, of course, you’re able to save 60% of your income. But I would say that most of the people that I know, in the FIRE movement, have kids, it’s actually a big part of a lot of people’s why is that they want to spend more time with their kids. I think kids are a great reason to pursue FI not for me, but but for other people. Sure. So I think that is, you know, kids can be very expensive. But I think anything that you know, you love and that takes work and you know, I think of the economy is my kid, I think of you know, my dog that I love so much like, you know, or, or these world adventures I’m birthing like that, like the Camino, like, all of that stuff takes money. And so I do think it’s possible when you have kids, but you need to, you know, tailor the way you go about it for those circumstances. You know, a lot of people will say that it requires extreme frugality, in order to, you know, decrease your expenses that much. I disagree with that. I do think that I’m frugal, I don’t think that I’m that extreme. I think when it starts to feel like deprivation, I would just argue that you’ve taken it too far, I don’t think that means that you should just give up on it being possible, there is a certain point where like, you can’t decrease your expenses anymore, it’s just gonna really affect your quality of life. And I think at that point, you really need to focus on increasing your income. I think you need to kind of look at those, those two things in tandem. And I think the thing that really helps me is, I’ve lowered expectations on what I want. That’s a mindset shift. So one of the things I like to say is, it’s not enough to not buy the Tesla, you actually have to not want the Tesla. Because if you want the Tesla, you’re just not buying it, well then that’s going to feel like deprivation, it’s very similar to you know, I told you guys, we were chatting before that I’ve actually stopped drinking is a experiment in like, you know, I’ve spent a lot of my adult life drunk. I’m a very, very fun drunk. And so I feel bad for everybody else, but I feel awesome. But what the thing about not drinking is if you want to drink the whole time, and you’re just not doing it, then that’s gonna feel really uncomfortable. You actually have to remove the desire to drink in order to be successful at it, versus just changing the behavior. And I think that’s what’s really required when you’re reducing your expenses and thinking about frugality.

Money Mechanic
Value, I think it’s such a big thing, right? It’s all about valuing where you spend your money and time. And that comes down to what you’re just discussing there. With that mindset shift. I think personally, I found that going super hardcore, the beginning was good for me. Even though we all probably agree that in the long run, you can’t do that. But I mean, I’d walk by in the kitchen and like the kitchen tap was running because the wife’s like cleaning, you know, rinsing some dishes, whatever. And she’d turn around and go to the fridge and I shut the tap off because like I’m saving half a liter of water, because I pay for water coming in and going out. But that’s ridiculous. Like, it’s, you know, I get it, turn your thermostat down a degree because it will make a difference in the long run. But there’s only so much you can cut and like you said when it starts feeling like deprivation, it’s like it’s okay, if you value it, add it back in, because that matters.

Diania
Yeah, there’s a certain degree of it. That’s like, I think about people that are like extreme couponers to the point where it’s like completely irrational that they’re really not…

Money Mechanic
But if that’s what they want to do though, like if they’re into that it’s fine

Diania
But they have fun with it.

Money Mechanic
Yeah, that’s cool. Like, um, yeah.

Diania
So so I think part of it is like if you’re Yeah, if you’re having fun with it, but if it’s driving you crazy, well then, you know, really start to assess what’s the value add there?

Chrissy
Or driving your partner or your family crazy? You also have to think about it there.

Money Mechanic
I think we can all admit a little bit of guilt there for doing it. Usually it’s hard to get like, usually, I mean, I’ve got a spouse no kids same as you, Diania. So it’s, it’s usually one partner, the other that kind of finds FIRE, goes hardcore. And then it’s like, we’ve had lots of discussions about how you bring your spouse on board. And sometimes it’s a bit of a rocky road, right? It’s not always they don’t see the light the way that you’ve seen the light, and go, Oh, sure. You’ve got to start reading Mr. Money Mustache, and you’re just gonna get this, you’re gonna see everything that I see. But it’s not because they have to have their own Why? To be able to join the journey, right?

Diania
Yeah, I will say, I am super inexperienced on how like the whole partnership dynamic. I mean, I have a boyfriend now for two and a half years. But like, I met him when I was already like this. And he’s actually a lot more frugal than me. But we don’t have our finances combined. Like, we don’t live together. So it’s, you know, I guess we make decisions about how we’re going to use our time, but we don’t really talk about it that much. Because our you know, our finances are so separate. Yeah. So yeah, I, I feel like I always say like, I’ve been blessed with no children. And I’ve never had to make financial decisions with another person. So I’m like, obnoxiously fortunate in that way.

Money Mechanic
Well, I think one thing we learned about last year is all of us need to acknowledge the privilege that we have. Right? So…

Diania
Definitely, or the privilege that we’re wasting. I mean, that’s another thing that I think as far as misconceptions around FIRE, there is a lot going on right now criticizing the FIRE movement, and how we’re all just privileged. And we’re lucky. And, you know, it doesn’t have to do with our hard work. And so we’ve got to stop this narrative of like, pull yourself up by your bootstraps. And I definitely think there’s some truth to that. But I also don’t think that FIRE content is trying to solve the problem of systemic poverty. That is a completely different issue that I don’t think that we are trying to address at all.

Chrissy
No, I would agree. I would agree. And I think by us pursuing FIRE, it gives us the freedom to give back in a way that does help people who are struggling, right, trying to spread financial awareness and maybe coaching someone for free. I mean, that’s something I would love to do one day when my kids aren’t so demanding of my time. I would love to be able to take on someone and take them from maybe bankrupt or really struggling, to financially secure. How amazing would that be? And what a nice way to give back.

Money Mechanic
Totally agree, because I wasn’t gonna tell you my latest idea, because I bombard you with all these ideas. And you’re like, don’t do that don’t want more stuff. But yeah, it’s funny that you just said that because I was chatting with my wife the other day. And I said, you know, because, of course, I’m on this, trying to figure out what I want to not, I don’t want to say retire to. But like, what’s next type thing. I mean, I love doing the podcast, but I’m always looking for something more. So I said, you know, I’m not qualified to be a financial coach. And I don’t I mean, I do want to do the education side of it. But I don’t want to have to go work at a broker to become a CFP to do complex plans for people I serve, you know, you there is another, there’s no FI coaches, maybe I’ll just be an FI coach. And it’s just like that accountability partner almost where you’re like, Okay, let’s just run through the big ideas here. And, you know, give you the the blogs and the literature and the podcasts and, and help that mindset shift and get it all dialed in. It’s not going to take long, like three months, and people kind of have it dialed in. But so many people and we see it through social media, right on the Facebook groups, I’m sure it’s the same for you, as you see lots of questions. And you know, they’ve been answered before and asked, but they’re common. There’s a common thread about this journey. And I think that’s what part of this podcast is all about are all the podcasts is answering these questions that all of us have kind of grappled with at some point or other. So maybe I can just be an FI Coach, Chrissy. That’s next year’s project.

Chrissy
That sounds fun. I would love that.

Money Mechanic
Sorry. off topic back to the misconceptions.

Diania
Yeah, I mean, again, I think the the topic of privilege is just very front and center right now. You know, I was reading a book called Pound Foolish that really talked a lot about this, and just kind of the financial services industry and how it can be very predatory and how, you know, if you look at someone like Suze Orman, who is like, you know, giving people financial advice and talking about how you know, how they should invest in stocks, and yet how much is she invested in stocks, she’s making all of her money from, you know, selling that advice. And so I think there is a lot of stuff you’ve got to muddle through. But at the end of the day, for me, I recognize that I’m privileged, and I recognize that there is inequality out there. But I also recognize the FIRE movement really showed me how much I was wasting my privilege. And I don’t think that I am all that unique in that sense. I think all of this shaming about spending money and like being wasteful about money is really targeted at people like me, that could be getting ahead and not living paycheck to paycheck, but we’re not because we’re stuck in the consumerist culture. And then we’re scratching our heads wondering why we’re living paycheck to paycheck That to me is who the FI content is geared towards. So when people say, but I can’t do that, and I can’t do that that may be true. You know, if you are truly in a position where you can’t make ends meet, then you know, I acknowledge that absolutely. But I don’t think that FIRE is geared the content is geared towards those people at all.

Chrissy
You’re right. Actually, Mr. Money Mustache does address this on his blog. I don’t remember the blog post’s name. But he does mention this because people are complainy pants and they whine to him about you know, you can’t do this if you’re this or you’re that and he says that’s not who I’m aiming for. I’m aiming for the middle class people who are mindlessly going through life, and spending way too much on way too many things that they don’t actually need. But if you dial it in, then you could become FI instead of just on that treadmill of working till you’re 65, just because everyone else does it. So yeah, right. He and we are not targeting every single person on this planet. We’re aware that it’s not for everybody. But there is a large group who are like us right in the middle who could do a little bit better in many areas and get themselves to FI a lot sooner.

Diania
Definitely.

Money Mechanic
That’s where I think for me, one of the big misconceptions that I see is that when people hear FIRE, all they hear is the financial and the retire part of it. Yeah. And so they focus on Oh, it’s about high savings rate, frugality, investing, and, you know, quitting your corporate job or whatever. So that’s what they it’s all in the media. That’s what, all we see. Right? That’s the focus. But really, what we’re getting to once you’ve got some experience with the journey is that it’s the mindset shift. That is everything. That is what FIRE is, to me, the misconception is that it’s all about money. And it’s really not, that’s a byproduct of your shift. And by making that mindset shift, we’re better consumers. We’re not as wasteful. We’ve made so many good changes in our life. And I’ve said this before, is, even if you start the journey to FIRE and you never retire early, just by starting, there’s improvements in your life. There’s right away, right? And it’s that mindset change. That is everything. Like you said, none of us knew how to invest at the beginning. But that’s a byproduct of that mindset shift. And there’s lots of information and you’ll learn it, pick it one piece by piece, it doesn’t have to all happen in one day. Right? That’s the biggest misconception for me.

Diania
Yeah, I think we have a problem with branding, you know, as someone who has a marketing definitely have an issue with the brand here, because retirement is in the name right? Yeah, financial independence, retire early. And I think that the retirement aspect can kind of seem a little ridiculous to people like I’m 30 years old, why would I retire? I’ve got my whole life ahead of me. And I think it needs it’s much more about options, creating options. And retirement is one of those options. I also think our definition of retirement probably differs than what most people think, think of retirement and think you’re just like sitting on the couch all day are like not doing anything with your time. But even people that retire at traditional retirement age. I mean, don’t sit around all day and do nothing. That’s not really what retirement is about. Most people still go on to do something, you know,

Money Mechanic
Yeah, my mother-in-law is busier in retirement than she ever was at our job. Like she volunteers at the bird sanctuary. She’s Dragon Boat racing. She’s currently she’s like, actually, like, my dogs go there for the weekend. And they’re more tired when we get them back. She’s doing like 10k mountain hikes. It’s blows my mind. She’s an amazing woman. Amazing. But, you know, that’s just goes to show, right?

Diania
Yeah, I think it really also, it’s about examining the fact that money is just this incredible resource. And just like our time and our energy are really incredible resources. And I think what I love about FIRE and content around FIRE is that it it really kind of examines the intersection of all three of those things of how you’re using your time, your energy and your money. And those to me are really most important resources, and they all affect each other. And my pursuit of FIRE and FI-lexibility is almost finding this like sweet spot in the middle of those where it’s all in balance.

Chrissy
I love it.

Money Mechanic
That’s that brings me back I just finished reading a book called Good to Great stick in the shownotes It’s a bit dated, it’s from the early 2000s it kind of talks about business but what you just said there reminded me one of the concepts they have in the book where you know we’ve seen the diagrams with the three intersecting circles and in the middle it’s like the sweet spot right so you have like the one circle is like your why of FI, right and then you know the economic engines towards FI and then like what your passions are and where they all intersect is that that value that’s your why that’s why you’re doing this. What’s the journey is all about a good book anyway, if you haven’t read it. A little off topic. We don’t bring up enough books on the show Chrissy.

Chrissy
No, I know. We, I mean, it’s funny because we, we read a lot of books all of us do.

Money Mechanic
I’m excited I’ve two on order that I don’t I try and use the library as much as possible. But it’s been tough last year not going to the library. So I’ve got limited resource online, but I’ve just ordered Thinking in Bets. I don’t know if either of you read that one. I’ve read that one. It’s okay. I’ve heard it’s really good, too. And the other one I got is The Psychology of Money. The new one or newer one by Morgan Housel right, I’m really looking forward to reading that.

Diania
That’s awesome. You read that one? I have not. I’ve heard him on a couple of interviews though. It sounds awesome. I reserved it at the library. I think I’m number 60 in line.

Money Mechanic
That’s the thing as I go in, and I clicked hold on Atomic Habits, because I’ve been mean to read that book for ages too. I’m like, great. The hold is 862 days. Looks like what looks like four years, three years. Anyway, okay, I’m good at getting off-topic here. So we’ve been chatting for quite a while. We’ve covered a lot. Thank you so much, Diania. It’s been amazing. I think we could keep going for like Part Two here because we all love talking. Chrissy has been the quietest she’s ever been.

Chrissy
I know, I’m just listening, taking it in. But I could also talk about this endlessly I love by and I just love chatting with people who have the same kind of mindset. It’s just it’s just fun for me.

Money Mechanic
Okay, you get to throw out your one of your misconceptions, Chrissy because we all kind of share I shared mine. And Diania shared some of hers.

Chrissy
My misconception. I think you kind of touched on it that it’s all single people without kids. I have two kids. And they’re 12 and 15 now, and we will reach FI while they’re still living in our house. So, and we live in a high cost city and I’m actually a stay-at-home mom. So even worse, you know, we’re one income, we’ve been one income since we had kids. So I’m not saying everyone can do it. But it’s possible. Even if you have kids, even if you live in an expensive city. And even if you only have one income, you can reach FI just by optimizing. And like I said before, not spending like everybody else, everyone else around us has nicer cars than us, fancier houses, their houses are beautifully decorated. And you know, I love my house, it’s not ugly, but it’s not on-trend all the time, like most people around me, and I’m okay with that. Because I know what I value. And I love having this time with my kids and being able to go on the vacations that we go on pre-COVID. And hopefully post COVID soon, but that’s where our value is. It’s not in the things and in showing people how much we have. It’s in having those experiences and having the option to be there for my kids. And that’s what’s valuable. So yeah, that is another misconception that it’s all a bunch of single people pursuing FIRE, because that’s not it at all.

Diania
No, I love that. I mean, I think what I’ve seen in kind of people’s reactions to me, and in the criticism that that I get when I because I talk about this too. You know, some people and I’m sure you’ve you’ve seen this to where they kind of have this, like almost visceral reaction like, well, I couldn’t do that. They’re like, immediately dismissive. Oh, well, that I can do that. And I just, I think that that, in my mind, it’s like, well, if you believe that, then you’re right, you are never going to do it. And I don’t really feel like I’m here to try to convince that person that but you could do it if you thought about it differently, right? I think that we’re trying to reach the people that when we tell them our story, they have this spark of curiosity, and they’re like, huh, I wonder how they did that. I want to hear more about that and see if any of it applies to me. Those are the kind of people to me that are like, primed for FI You know, they’re, they’re just like, right to learn more about this stuff, and they’d be able to apply it to their life. Like that’s what’s really exciting to me. Because the I was that person, you know, I if it wasn’t for Pete deciding to type into a computer one day, his musings about money, you know, where would I be? And so part of it feels like a bit of responsibility to like, share my story because it could potentially spark someone else the way that Pete story sparked me.

Chrissy
That’s how I feel, too. And that’s why I put in all the hours that I put in on this podcast and on my blog, to keep sharing because maybe someone will will relate to my story where they might not relate to someone else. And that will start one person’s journey in the right direction and lead them to a happier, more secure life.

Diania
Definitely.

Money Mechanic
I think that’s what Chrissy, like we brought up a little earlier. That’s the attraction to coaching is just that help, right? Help somebody you know, because you because we all know what the large impact it has on your life and your happiness in the long run.

Diania
Yeah, I mean, once you take care of yourself, it’s like what else is there to do besides help other people, and there’s literally nothing else to do?

Money Mechanic
Yeah, yeah. Come on. We all walk our dogs. We love our dogs. We’re all dog people on here. My dogs are probably sleeping. They usually make an appearance on my other podcast, because they hang out with us in the garage. Yeah. Before we wrap up here, we should definitely talk about your, we did talk about the webinar that you did about five misconceptions or listeners should definitely check that out. You did do one earlier, or I guess it was late last year about the whole concept of FI-lexibility, which I found really interesting. So that’s a great lesson for our listeners as well. And I love that we’ve had this discussion today because like I said, at the beginning, this kind of psychology of FI bridges the borders, right? We don’t, doesn’t matter where you live, and I love seeing this whole community grow around the world, too. I listened to the financial independence, your podcast sometimes. And I’ve got like, you know, the Michelle from it’s the Australian blogger, right. And it’s so awesome to see all these people like you and I met at FinCon last year, right. And I was actually going to go to FinCon. So I was really bummed when it didn’t happen. But it was so cool to just be on there. And, you know, I knew your name from that webinar. And I just, you know, just type in, hey, Diania. And that’s one of the things I love about this community is it’s warm, it’s welcoming. Everybody’s there for each other to share, right? And just because you’re a listener of a podcast, and maybe you’re not on Facebook, or whatever, you can reach out to any of the bloggers, like you said, Pete was there to help promote EconoMe, and I love that about this community. We’re all there for each other.

Diania
Totally. It’s really, it’s surprising, right? Because it’s like, you put people up on a pedestal. Yeah. And then you know, and then you’re like, oh, wow, you’re just a normal person.

Money Mechanic
Totally. Yeah, exactly. So tell us about your projects for this year.

Diania
Yeah, so definitely building EconoMe, this speaker lineup for EconoMe 2021 is insane, like I said, I wish I could start announcing it right now. Because I’m so excited about it. But I mean, it’s the first I thought the first year’s lineup was incredible, like, and how am I ever going to top that, and like, I’m already like, Wow, I can’t believe the amount of talent that wants to participate. So it’s very, very exciting. I’m also signing sponsors, which I didn’t have, I didn’t have much sponsors the first year, so that’s really gonna help me and like breaking even, and recouping that 40 grand that I lost in the first year. So that’s a very heavily working on that. And I’ve been doing these, you mentioned the webinars, I’m trying to do them every month. So I’ve done two so far. And I’ve got a whole kind of backlog of ideas, like, you know, I want to do one on the Camino. And like everything I learned walking the Camino and the benefit of like doing a mini retirement or sabbatical. That’s kind of a concept I’m playing around a little bit. So I would encourage you to join the mailing list at EconoMeConference.com, and that’s EconoMe with ‘me’ at the end. And you will be notified of all the free webinars that I offer, you will get exclusive content that I write, I don’t have a traditional blog, but I do kind of write articles that I share through the newsletter. And then like when tickets go on sale for EconoMe, they’ll be offered their first speaker announcements, you’ll really kind of get to stay in the know if you’re on on the mailing list. And then also, you could tune into Optimal Finance Daily, which is a daily show where I read the blog posts and offer my own commentary. You can always subscribe to that and catch me on there.

Chrissy
Very nice. You’re a busy lady.

Diania
And it can easily feel a little too much sometimes. Like, I’ve got so many hobbies, but yeah, it’s super fun.

Money Mechanic
The topic of our next discussion will be how to say no.

Diania
You know, it’s funny thinking about, I mean, I do have time for it, because I have a very flexible schedule with work. And I don’t have kids. And you know, I typically don’t watch TV, but I actually just bought a television. That is like my… No, I mean, I’m not gonna get like cable or anything I’m just gonna have it’s just a bigger screen to watch like Netflix, basically. But I am 33 years old, I have never owned a TV before. So it just feels like man, I’m putting my big girl pants on.

Money Mechanic
Productivity is gonna go way down.

Chrissy
Somehow I don’t think so.

Diania
I maintain that I will still be an obnoxious morning person. So I hope that I will not be watching TV that early.

Money Mechanic
That’s awesome. Well, congratulations on the no drinking. And if you ever decide to have a glass of wine, I have another podcast where I just get together my buddies and drink beer and talk finance. And I’m a fun drunk too. So we have to keep doing what you’re doing because it’s fantastic.

Diania
Can I get stoned on that podcast?

Money Mechanic
Well, Joe Rogan does so I don’t see why we could. Exactly. I mean, this is Canada, we’re legal.

Diania
Yeah, and we’ll make it a party.

Money Mechanic
That’s awesome.

Chrissy
Extra-fun party.

Money Mechanic
Well, it has been fun having you on the show and I really appreciate you making the time for us up here in the Great White North. Have you ever been to Canada?

Diania
I have.

Money Mechanic
We used to ask guests questions. So we’re gonna ask you a question about, a Canada trivia question.

Diania
Oh my gosh. I’ve been to Montreal and I’ve been to Niagara Falls. Oh, there I had a crazy weekend in Montreal. Party weekend in my 20s Yeah. I had an oyster for the first time and it was disgusting.

Chrissy
In Montreal? That’s a strange place to have an oyster! Come to BC you’ll have some good oysters.

Diania
Okay.

Money Mechanic
Yeah, yeah. Go West.

Diania
Yeah. Got it noted.

Money Mechanic
What’s our? Yeah, I didn’t even plan for trivia question, Chrissy. Do you have one real quick?

Chrissy
Do I have one? Oh gosh.

Money Mechanic
Okay name our two tax, we have a tax deferred and a taxable account. Come on, two of them!

Diania
Is this the make the American sound stupid segment?

Money Mechanic
Rick Mercer is this guy from our from CBC? We’ve got like a Canadian Broadcasting Company. And he used to do was it Rick Mercer that did Talking to Americans. Chrissy? Did you ever see?

Chrissy
Yeah, I think so. He’s hilarious.

Diania
The problem about Americans is that we’re so self centered. Like, why would I know anything about Canada?

Money Mechanic
So then I really want to ask you since Canada has no coastline, do you really think they need to have a Navy? I think that was one of the questions.

Chrissy
Oh no! Terrible, terrible!

Money Mechanic
No. That’s funny. Okay, so you can’t name our two favourite accounts. One of them like you’ve got the 401k and you’ve got the Roth. We have the synonymous ones here. We’ve got the RRSP and the TFSA.

Diania
Okay, I know I’ve probably come across those in in passing and just blocked them out because they’re not relevant.

Money Mechanic
Yeah. Next episode, there’s gonna be a follow up test, you’re gonna have to binge listen to all of our episodes instead of binge watching Netflix.

Diania
Agreed! Deal, we have a deal!

Money Mechanic
Chrissy, parting words?

Chrissy
Well, thank you, Diania, I think you’re doing wonderful things for the FIRE community. And I can’t wait to see what you keep coming up with because you have so much energy and so much to share. And I love that you are putting it out into the world so that people can benefit from what you’ve learned and all your energy.

Diania
Oh, thank you so much.

Yeah. So hopefully, the EconoMe Conference can go ahead this year or in 2021. Let’s hope that it’ll be safe. And then we can have an in-person meetup again.

Absolutely.

Money Mechanic
Yes. And hopefully, FinCon will be in person as well.

Diania
Definitely. Well, thank you guys so much. This is really a ton of fun. You guys are very easy to talk to. And you know, this is just what these You’re like my people you know, it’s like when you find your tribe. It’s just so refreshing. So it’s very energizing chat.

Money Mechanic
Good. Any questions, parting questions about Canada? Before we go? It’s like you’ve always wanted to know, because we are a wealth of information. All the, Chrissy, it’s true. They’re all the same. There’s a border there. I don’t know what happens on the other side of that border.

Chrissy
We’re just the boring cousins up north.

Diania
Okay, so here’s a question as it relates to FIRE. Like, what is what do you think is the number one benefit that you have been Canadians that we don’t have as Americans?

Money Mechanic
Health care.

Chrissy
Yeah, health care.

Diania
Yeah, I knew you would say that. Way to rub it in!

Money Mechanic
Okay, but just before we go on, I don’t want to take make this into a whole long segment. But there’s a little bit of a misconception there, because we are very, very lucky and privileged to have basic health care. But the majority of us need to have extended plans that are either through work, and that is a discussion about within the FIRE communities. What do you do at the end? Yes, you can go to the hospital and be treated for a broken arm without paying 10 grand. But we need to have extended coverage here for a lot of other things. So you know, it’s it’s really good. I’m not complaining about it at all. But there is still a bit that we do have to pay for if you want additional dental coverage, things like that. So yeah, I mean, it’s the number one thing but it’s a perfect system.

Chrissy
Yeah, it’s not perfect.

Diania
Yeah. Well, they say that Canadians are very polite. And I would say I agree with the way that you’ve tempered your answer there.

Money Mechanic
Thank you for calling me diplomatic. Chrissy doesn’t let me swear on the show. So I have to be as nice as possible.

Not allowed.

Diania
Oh, no, I think I may have I think I may have sworn you have to bleep that out.

Money Mechanic
I was listening to your webinar and you like dropping the F word. And I’m like, this is awesome. I don’t mind, but Chrissy’s like, we can’t be explicit.

Diania
Yeah, it’s funny, like a speaker that I’m very excited about for EconoMe next next year, he asked me like, Am I allowed to curse on stage and I was like, F-yeah.

Chrissy
It makes it fun. It’s authentic.

Diania
Definitely.

Money Mechanic
For sure. Okay, but better sign off because our listeners are probably going, I’m home now it’s been an hour these guys chatter on. So we’ll just keep talking and hit the non record button. So thanks again and we’ll see you in the next episode of Explore FI Canada. Thanks for listening.